Al, 'zackly.
That's why you see me throw Danke's toy to the ground in my vid.

She was coming in hot, and it was muddy. I wasn't chancing it.

Barbara,if you are wearing big heavy gloves you are not going to have the same dexterity & speed of movement that you will have glove free. Nor will you have the ability to deliver the tug & get your dog to target properly on a smaller puppy tug. Biting your arm, hands etc is a targeting & speed of working the tug properly problem. It doesn't have anything to do with bragging rights, which is a dumb statment. It is also a redirecting properly problem.

If I'm not mistaken, this pup is supposed to be a SchH prospect. It is important that the pup be worked properly as a young pup, if that is to be in his futute. It's a quite a bit different than just playing around with a tug with your pet dog.

I can assure you, there is a big difference between a BC, fuzzy lap dog & s/l GSD compared to a well bred, fast, agile, very high drive working pup that bites like a pup 2X it's size with a very hard full mouth grip.

 Quote: Anne Jones

It doesn't have anything to do with bragging rights, which is a dumb statment.

Didn't mean to sound dumb, it was meant to be a bit humerous... We all know folks who think they are a cut above the rest because of their dog.

Everything you said made perfect sense and I appreciate the explanation. Thanks!

Barbara, I know that you don't have experience in bitework, but it really does make a BIG difference how you start a pup destined to be working sport dog (or PPD). Teaching what seems like 'little' things make a dig difference later on when you teach the dog to target biting from a tug to a bite pillow (block) & then on a sleeve, leg sleeve, suit etc. TARGETING is a key part of the work. As much as a full, calm bite. It all builds on the other, just like any other kind of training.

As I, & others, have said before...it is alot easier to teach something correctly from the begining then it is to fix it later. It takes 10X longer to fix a mistake. I have learned this the hard way, as have many others.

I will disregard your inuendo about the cut above people as it is not on topic & I refuse to be dragged into that nonsense with you. Yes, I am very blessed to have an VERY exceptionally nice bitch that happens to be from Ed's breeding program, but I also have a male this is a far lesser w/l dog...so what does that have to do with the topic at hand on this thread?!

LOL...so...we tried the gloves. Guess who likes gloves better than a ball..that's right you guessed it Ace. Tried putting them on and he thought they were a toy..so didn't even try wearing them. my hands were screaming "DONT DO IT DONT DO IT" guess i will be working on spead and above all accuarcy in timing.
I have to say that video made me laugh pretty good..but I can't show it to my hubby..if I do there will be no chance on earth he will ever come around to exercizing Ace. and it's already a bit tough with a toddler, house to keep clean, garden to finish, patio to grout, and keep this pup tired.
And i have to agree..I have trained many pups in my shot span of life here on earth. but NEVER IN MY LIFE have I experience a pup like this. and I take it as a HUGE compliment that you noticed he is a W/L gsd. My family had rotties and their pups never DREAMED about biting this hard, this fast, this hard..oh i said that already. But they were "american" rot's. Nothing wrong with them (i loved them to pieces)
I'll get some more pictures of the land shark tomorrow. It's amazing how dark they get in such a short amount of time.

Oh...and when should i switch from a rag to a real tug? I have said the word "tug" in previous convo's but i've been calling a rag a tug. how big should it be (thickness). and should i maybe put a string on it first to move it like prey? or present it as prey and take the rag away from there? Oh and he is 14 weeks now. (i just looked at his paperwork) been losing track of time again

Does the OP belong to a club? If Not, The Next Step Might Be To Find One.

 Quote: Anne Jones

Barbara, I know that you don't have experience in bitework, but it really does make a BIG difference how you start a pup destined to be working sport dog (or PPD). Teaching what seems like 'little' things make a dig difference later on when you teach the dog to target biting from a tug to a bite pillow (block) & then on a sleeve, leg sleeve, suit etc. TARGETING is a key part of the work. As much as a full, calm bite. It all builds on the other, just like any other kind of training.

Once again, this makes perfect sense. I know the OP will also benefit from the explanation as well.

 Quote: Anne Jones

if you are wearing big heavy gloves you are not going to have the same dexterity & speed of movement that you will have glove free.

Huh? I was talking about the lightweight, second skin mechanic type gloves. Not the big welding gloves that the OP mentioned.

I can understand why heavy gloves would be a bad idea, but those type of gloves as well?

I mean, when I'm wearing them I've sure felt those teeth, I just prevent some of the nicks that need bandaids afterward.

 Quote:

I can assure you, there is a big difference between a BC <snip> compared to a well bred, fast, agile, very high drive working pup that bites like a pup 2X it's size with a very hard full mouth grip.

You should meet Kipp Cattle bred working BC. I'd venture to guess he could almost hold his own against a w/l shepherd when it comes to intensity in grabbing his tug I'll have to get a video to post.

If you can use the rag like a tug & get him to target on a spot between your hands, then you can use a tug also. You can start with it on a rope to get him interested, if you need to do that.
You just need to be able to get him to target the middle of the tug to use the tug more effectively, as a training/reward tool.

I'd start with a smaller tug,maybe one with 2 handles, if you are continuing to have trageting problems that might make it a bit easier for you to help target him on the tug itself. I would also get him used to different tug materials, as discussed in another thread.

I would also let hin win the tug/rag often to keep his interest & build his confidence. Also, I would not be playing tug with a teething pup. you don't want him to associate any discomfort with playing tug. You can play with a rag if you let him chase it & 'catch' it,but not tugging with him until he is through with teething.