i think there is only one dog in our class wearing a head halter. the rest seem to be wearing gentle leaders (the ones that clip in the front), or regular harnesses, or collar. the only thing they DIDN'T want, was you to bring your dog in on a choke, or prong collar. they are pretty flexible, and don't make anyone do anything. how is that really a red flag?

anyway, i was worried about the flooding aspect of this class as well, but that's not what is going on at all. they have the dogs with their people in separate areas and behind barriers, not one dog has seen another yet. all we are focusing on right now, is getting our dogs to look at us while behind the barrier. we stand there and wait till they look, then treat. they said we shouldn't ask them to look at us, we just have to wait till they do it on their own, so it becomes automatic to them in this environment.

anyway, i think so far we are going to stick with it!

 Quote: jenn verrier

anyway, i was worried about the flooding aspect of this class as well, but that's not what is going on at all. they have the dogs with their people in separate areas and behind barriers, not one dog has seen another yet. all we are focusing on right now, is getting our dogs to look at us while behind the barrier. we stand there and wait till they look, then treat. they said we shouldn't ask them to look at us, we just have to wait till they do it on their own, so it becomes automatic to them in this environment.

anyway, i think so far we are going to stick with it!

I think it sounds pretty good, the way they have it set up. Sounds like they are moving nice and slow...
Keep us updated. I'd love to read about your progress...

thanks! yes slow is the way to go. will make sure to post here after our next class!

 Quote: jenn verrier

i think there is only one dog in our class wearing a head halter. the rest seem to be wearing gentle leaders (the ones that clip in the front), or regular harnesses, or collar. how is that really a red flag?

It's a red flag with me because it implies that the trainer is too focused on certain equipment as being used in a certain way. It also tells me that the trainer puts a higher value on the "humane" label than safety.

A regular non-restricting collar will slip off way too easily on a dog that's struggling.

Regular harnesses don't offer control they allow a determined dog to really dig in and drag the owner. Those harnesses that clip in the front have to be adjusted very precisely in order to work as advertised. Otherwise they often work because they are hobbling the dogs shoulders or causing it pain in their armpit area.

It's great to go slow and not intentionally get the dogs into a situation where a fight erupts but if it does the owner needs to be able to keep control. My parents dog has been worked with a lot for her reactive issues but can still be unpredictable especially when challenged by another female. Xena has torn another dogs leg open from shoulder to past the hock. Would you feel comfortable with me taking Xena into a class like that in a harness knowing that she's nearly 80 pounds of muscle and I have no control over where her jaws are going? That she is strong enough to jump over 6ft in the air without using her front paws? That once she grabs onto a dog she has to be physically pried off in some cases? You will get dogs like that in some classes.

Xena is worked on a choke collar that is only really there as a back up. But it's there and if something happens my parents know they can physically control their dog.

Otherwise it sounds like a great class I just don't like using "humane" tools at the potential expense of control in a bad situation.

Agree completely with Cathy.
And as you know Jenn I applaud your efforts and look forward to hearing your progress!

On this halter topic -I had my first experience with one yesterday as I started my pit bull mentoring assignment at my local SPCA. It does seem the majority of humane organizations use these devices almost exclusively. It was a "sensation" harness and as I walked the dog I was trying to get a sense of the mechanics of this contraption in motion (I get the concept exactly as Cathy stated) but I couldn't help wishing for a prong in my pocket!

I talked to my mentor about this and I guess the party line is that they don't want to risk having the public use these training collars in the wrong way...?

When we attended our first class here though they were completely open about whatever collar choice the owner came in with. I have to say I may had been inclined to leave if I encountered a "no prong/chain" or halter only philosophy..

I actually run Bark Classes for reactive / aggressive dogs, it's a 5 hour course once a month. Starts with a 45 minute lecture, has a 45 min lunch / unofficial q&a session. In addition to about 15 mins of handler only exercises. Actual training time is around 3 hours. There's a synopsis of the course in this post.

I understand the natural aversion to 'flooding' but in my classes we do not really employ that method. It would be better yes to train one reactive dog in a class of neutral ones - however that is rarely possible.

I allow dogs to come in with any equipment as long as it is utilised correctly but not harnesses, or extendable leashes etc. Some people I suggest use a certain item if suitable for their situation. I personally hate headcollars and anti-pull harnesses and am rather vocal about anything that can injure a dog.

My Bark Classes start with a lecture, each owner gets a 30 page booklet that explains dog aggression; how I treat it, how to teach watch, leave it, how and why to redirect, when to use corrections, when to reward, marker training, useful equipment & obedience commands, dietary and veterinary info. etc. The lecture covers the immediately useful parts of the booklet and I explain what we are going to do.

Class will be 4 dogs max if new to the course or up to 6 if some have attended previously. It's completely outdoors.

Initally we take the dogs out on the field, spaced widely apart. My assistant and I instruct how to get the dogs attention and how to control aggressive outbursts. Basically we start moving the dogs around, getting the owners used to redirecting.

Then still very far apart we teach the dogs leave it and watch. We can start using some form of correction at that point - most of these dogs are very handler soft, so what actually happens varies from dog to dog.

Once they have a partial grasp of the basics, we move the dogs around in a group - basically relaxed heelwork. Gradually distance between dogs is reduced but they will never be close enough to touch.

Over the day we practice real-world scenarios, like walking down a road with an approaching dog. On leash recall away from other dogs. chilling with their owner while another dog plays nearby. That kind of thing.

We do exercises without the dogs too, like showing the reasons why loose leashes work better. How to use a long line...

Many owners cannot take written instructions and turn it into a walk with their dog. The whole reason I run these courses is to give owners what they need to do so. I find that they work far better than 121s for this purpose, although I do do them too if the owner feels that they want one.

Let me know if you've any questions about method or theory or suggestions - I'm always updating the course as I learn things.

Well, we had our 3rd class last night. We are all still behind the barriers. practicing sit and stay this time, and then having the dog focus on an object and treating for that.

it wasn't as good as our 2nd class, but not terrible. luanne was pretty distracted by a small opening in the barrier and kept trying to look and get over there. she was also getting distracted by someone's squeaky toy that they were using to get their own dog's attention.

overall she did okay though. the biggest problem i have found now though, is that about half way through she will stop wanting treats. either she is full, or just no longer hungry, and treats are less appealing to her, so it's harder to get her attention with them. i have brought along a kong full of PB though which is her fav, and will start using that if we really need to, but she will even lose interest in that. I might try to bring some cheese next time too just in case.

I think next time we start opening up the barriers. they had one dog do it at the end of the class. only one dog's barrier was opened up, and the dog would get clicked and treated every time he looked into the big open room. so that's what they said will be at the next class.

outside of class my dog has been getting better at just randomly looking at me on our walks though, without me asking. which is good.

So, our 4th class this past Tuesday went really well too. Luanne did great! We started with the instructor opening the barriers for each dog, one at a time, and clicking and treating every time our dog looked into the room. The we practiced "leave it", holding a fistful of treats in front of the dog's nose and telling them "leave it", and then finally clicking and letting them have a treat when they step away from it.

Then the instructor put a large stuffed dog in the middle of the room, and opened the barriers again for each dog, one at a time, and clicking and treating every time our dogs looked at the stuffed dog.

Lastly, they opened the barriers for 2 dogs at time, at opposite ends of the room and clicking and treating when our dogs looked towards the dog at the other end of the room.

Instructors were very impressed with Luanne and said "she gets it!" I was so proud of her.

As I was leaving, one instructor said that from her behavior at the first class, they thought we might need to repeat this class at least 2 or 3 times, but said she was doing much better than she thought.

Jenn, that's great! Keep posting as you progress through the course.

I love the really controlled, slow aspect of this. No flooding and each dog apparently is moving at his own pace.

 Quote: Lynne Barrows

I love the really controlled, slow aspect of this. No flooding and each dog apparently is moving at his own pace.

I like the slow going method also but what exactly is the dog getting marked for? For the first two weeks they were taught to re-focis on their handlers(good!), then they were taught to focus on a stuffed dog(why? the dog knows it's not real), and then taught to look at the other dog(confrontational and NOT good!). Changing the marked behavior when faced with another dog every week just confuses the dog.