Quote: steve strom

It kinda sounds like mouthing has just become part of the fun Kelly, part of playing with you. It doesnt really read like aggressive so much as excited.

It is- but he's only done it with select few people. (Myself, when we are playing, my fiance, and Aaron M.-Koenig REALLY likes Aaron, lol.) It's not aggressive at all- and is totally an excited puppy thing.

I've never seen it in a situation like this morning before. It was not flat out aggression, nothing close to it, but it was clearly the dog blowing off the kid.

I don't have any expectation that Koenig will listen to, or really even respect Logan. I'm the leader, it's that simple, the dog knows that... but has previously been perfectly happy to go off a few feet with the kid to go potty.

I agree with Meredith. JD has one of the "Venus" balls (it was originally Callie's) likes it.

This is the Jolly Ball that they love and it comes in 3 different sizes - the small one would probably be a good size for Logan to kick (but it won't go as far as the one above I'm certain). The fun part to this one is it "wobbles" when it rolls and the pups love it.

http://www.amazon.com/Jolly-Pet-Teaser-Ball-Blue/dp/B0002ARYY8/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1302897769&sr=8-7

Sounds also like maybe a bit of maturity testing starting. You said he is just turning 2?

That last jump from adolescence to maturity can be a real 'testing' period with some dogs.

This is exactly what I see in the situation.

"It was not flat out aggression, nothing close to it, but it was clearly the dog blowing off the kid.
I don't have any expectation that Koenig will listen to, or really even respect Logan.


The dog is maturing and Logan is still a puppy in the pack. That wont change without you controlling the situation (which is seems your doing now).

Naughty Koe! Ive never meet a more mouthy dog than my dutch. He changed the way my son interacts with all the dogs. I don't know how "correct" this is, or if it has potential issues but I would love to know what y'all think and maybe it will work for you.
We did not get him as a baby puppy, he was already 6 months and no manners at all. My son (11) was told to stay clear, no commands, no interactions unless I was there. Naturally they didn't stay apart forever but my clever son found a solution. If pup was doing something he wrong or he needed the dog to move, he gave the command once. No collar grabbing was his biggest rule. Anyhow if the dog didn't listen he would holler "MOM!!" (even if I was sitting right there, holler). It didn't take the pup long to figure out I would arrive pissed. My sons place in the pack is solid, I think the pup knows he cant get away with challenging the child. He might try, but the system works so far. It goes without saying that I do not leave the dog and kid unattended together, they can be no more than one room away. Wont do any good for him to holler if I cant react that instant.
Ive told this story once, the family apparently tried it. Huge problems arose when the child thought it was funny to scream for mom even if the dog didn't do anything. Kid just liked seeing the dog react. I guess this would only work for families with decent dog sense.
Luck with your boys!

 Quote: Anne Jones

Sounds also like maybe a bit of maturity testing starting. You said he is just turning 2?

That last jump from adolescence to maturity can be a real 'testing' period with some dogs.

I was thinking about that too Anne. Yeah, his birthday was yesterday. He's all grown up now... lol. It would not surprise me if we have some testing times come up in the near future, so far I've escaped most of that, as he's been a pretty easy dog considering his past.

I did find a guy who knew Koenig before I got him- apparently Koenig nearly had a home with a local PD, and was working on the sleeve just before he was a year old! (I got him in May/June) Interesting, the stuff you can find out in small towns. The guy confirmed that it was my dog. Weird!

 Quote: bob scott

This is exactly what I see in the situation.

"It was not flat out aggression, nothing close to it, but it was clearly the dog blowing off the kid.
I don't have any expectation that Koenig will listen to, or really even respect Logan.


The dog is maturing and Logan is still a puppy in the pack. That wont change without you controlling the situation (which is seems your doing now).

Thanks Bob. It won't happen again, I've had a talk with Logan that there is no more walking Koenig. It needs to be a 'us' thing, and that playing ball can be 'their' thing. (Thanks for the idea on that one Aaron! Logan is stoked, because I'm planning on getting the two of them a special ball, just for them to use)

Some dogs coming up on mental maturity can be a rea PITA. Some just push a little here & a little there & others all out forget all the rules & realy have at ya & some are somewhere in between. Physical maturity & mental maturity are two different things. Physical maturity is when they reach their full stature & finish filling out. Mental maturity is when they reach their full capacity & attitude as as adult canine. They often become more serious, intense, more aware of their enviroment, intact males get alot more challenging to other males, especially, protective of 'property' which can be home turf & humans, just get 'forgetful' about rules & commands challenging authority etc etc etc. Most large breed dogs go thur this somewhere between 2 & 3 years old. Small breeds mature more quickly & go thru this sooner...haven't had small dogs in many years...but I think around a year or so give or take.

Different dogs & lines of dogs can be very different going thru this process....from your hardly noticing any change to out & out right handler aggression issues testing authority.

During this time you may need to reinforce all rules & even make a few new ones that require more absolute obedience & practice a NILIF(nothing in life is free)attitude if you don't already. Some dogs need to 'earn' everything from food to a pat of affection. Don't give a command that you can't inforce. Handler aggression issues need to be dealt with immediately, calmly & without emotion. Not going to go into dealing with this, as most people will not have this issue & if they do they need professional help, if not experienced & this is truly going on. It is not something to play with as you can get badly bittten if not handled correctly.

Most males are more ready to 'test' during this maturity stage then the females are. Althought there can be exceptions.

Most dogs just get pushy & test the rules & boundries. This process of maturing & testing can go on for weeks or months. Mostly he was a PITA.

My male constantly pushes & tests (but no his is NOT a dominant dog just s VERY pushy one). He was at his worse between 2 1/2 & 3 1/2 & became very HA at times. Mostly he was a PITA. My female would just 'turn a deaf ear' to commands & get pushy when she wanted affection & became more intense when protecting property.

When going thru this stage of your dog's growth you need to stay firm in your rules & be consistant in all that you do, because your dog will be watching for those inconsistancies & will be ready to take advantage when they happen.

You want to make clear to your dog that the rules are the rules & you as leader make those rules to be followed by all pack members(in multiple dogs homes) but you don't want to destroy your bond with your dog in the process.

Hope this helps clarify some of this maturing process. I am sure that Bob or Aaron or thers will have something to add.

Thanks Anne. I'm pretty caught-up on the mental growth of dogs, but a refresher is always welcome!

We do practice NILF, always have, probably always will. Best way for me to insure no issues arise between Sara and Koenig or dog + kid.

Kelly, that post was more of just an opportunity to put that on a post for others especially some newbes to see.

I know where your head is on this. You seem to be doing a wonderful job with Konig especially from where you started with him after his rescue. He looks great & finally has a happy & fun filled life thanks to you.