Yvette,

I dont think anyone means that the dog will never be safe around anyone. I hope I haven't given that impression. I believe, like others, the dog can end up being a great pet. My suggestions were aimed at a fear aggression problem, which isn't really the problem you have. Richard has pretty much hit the nail on the head. Good luck. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Parents are Leerburg dogs. Gee.....I REALLY wish you had mentioned that earlier!LOL Like maybe before my first post!LOL Oh boy...I'm in trouble now!LOL

I made an active decision not to mention that on the first pass. It amuses me in a dark sort of way to see how some folks will immediately get on the soap box about bad genetics.

Hercules loves his ball and I will try to use that to my advantage. The only limitation is that he comes into such strong drive that he jumps and tries to take the ball out of my hand if I hesitate before the throw. It doesn't bother me because I'm used to the quick motion, but with someone else who is not used to 85 lbs of prey drive jumping four legs straight off the ground, it would be intimidating. It's too bad about the nerves. He would've been a great SchH dog if it weren't for that.

Just one point of clarification... I want to make sure I get this straight so I'll get it right. That night when I was chatting with the neighbor lady, I ignored him when he pulled back. When he would walk up to me I softly praised him and gently petted him and kept right on gabbing with the lady. I didn't give him a correction on the prong until he started his guard-dog barking. I gave him a quick pop and excused myself from the conversation. Is that what you mean by appropriate response?

I've also thought about taking him to Agility class. There's people and dogs milling about, but he'll have his attention occupied with negotiating obstacles and such. Good plan or no?

luvmygsds2001,


Thats some dark side you have!LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Really though, it is no soapbox. Most times this is a genetic issue. I just happened to be really unlucky on this one!LOL As for your response to the barking, now that I have a better understanding of the situation, unless it turned into some sort of forward aggression, I would not correct the dog. I would try to re-direct the dog and put him in a down-stay. I would correct the dog if he did not obey the down command because that would now be an obedience issue.(Like what Richard said). Of course I would lavishly praise the dog when the barking stopped and the command was obeyed. In other words, your correcting the dog for not obeying a command. Your not correcting for barking at someone due to insecurity. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

While Ed breeds good solid working dogs, the genes must at least be considererd when talking about something like this. I am not sure what the parents lines go back to, but a guess is Mink and Grief? It is safe to say that these a hard core working lines, but just because he is a Leerburg dog does not make him excempt from this being a genetic issue. Noone can breed a pup and tell you how it will turn out. Maybe if your dog was raised diffrently the dog would have turned out to be a good working dog. Maybe if you had a dog from diffrent lines the dog would have turned out with you with no problems. Maybe if someone else had the dog, he would have turned out the same as he is geneticly spooky, from maybe a throw back. If he goes to Mink, it is possible. But the fact remains that a nery pup can creep up out of the best breeders stock regardless of who raises the dog. It does not matter what anyone claims it is a bit of a gamble; you can increase your odds by buying a pup from someone like Ed, but there still could be a downside no matter what.

Michael,

You bring up a good point. There is no such thing as a "sure thing". Everything is about odds. I don't have a leerburg dog but I do know that as far as genetics go they are about as good as you'll get. Odds are your getting one hell of a dog. I'm just looking at this from a humorous angle.I've been set up!LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Yvette,

You can do almost anything you want with your dog. Dogs are by nature very adaptive and react very well to a conditoned response and by associative learning.
I think it's great that your boy has such good ball drive you can use that to yor advantage when a stranger comes around. It gives the dog an outlet for his insecurities and will help him build his confidence and not care about the strangers and actually associate them with "working".
You are VERY correct about the way people jump on the bandwagon of "bad genetics" and I am glad that you kept the fact that he is a Leerburg dog till the end. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Also to clarify another thing:
Schutzhund is a GAME the dog is usually more focused on equipment than the decoy himself.I think to the contrary that with proper upbringing and foundation training the dog could participate and fare well and gain more confidence. A tape gfrom Ed that I liked for dogs wih such character is "Protection Traning the Beginning" with Berhard Manell I like that method of prey to introduce an insecure dog into the world of Schutzhund.
Click onthe Link below and look at the Gif of my once "insecure" "fear Biter" "weak nerved" dog and what he can do. Now after doing bite work that same insecure fear biting weak nerved dog astonishingly became a confident stable dog that will bite and out on comand, a person with or without a sleeve or suit in strange or familiar places. Also a dog when I take him upstate that can be a bodyguard to many children and naturally follows them on their walks into the woods without me biting my nails.I swear by this dog and would go to war with him in an instant knowing that this dog will do hs job. I also demo the dog with strangers and dogs around with NO bad incindents.On Halloween I had the dog do a bark and hold on a group of teenagers who vandalized my vehicle. He was on a sit stay and barking ready to go 15 feet behind me while I talked the the kids all under controll.
Richard and some others have really good advice I'd listen to them.

An Originally Insecure dog

George brings up some very good points here, but again, with all do respect, I don't really see any bandwagon here. Most dogs that display this type of fear or insecurity ARE a product of less than desirable genes. Now the question comes down to what does the owner intend to do with the dog. Plenty of dogs with weak nerves end up making excellent pets, but are not cut out for anything more than that. My reaction to the fact that the dog is a Leerburg dog was just an attempt at some humor. Maybe I should just stick to my day job!LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, like George just pointed out, definately listen to Richard. He has a great take on all of this.

I don't really think that anyone really jumps on anything here. The fact remains from what I stated before about bloodlines.
However since the point of Schutzhund was put into the post, the tape recommended is an excellent choice for you. Also the Building Grip and Focus tape with Flinks is a place to go for info. although I have not seen it yet I am sure the info. is sound. The animal in question was tested by a schutzhund helper I recall reading, and from what I read really the way in which this helper tested the dog once he seen the nervy problems crop up that should have sent a light bulb on in his head, but instead he pressured the dog and caused more of a problem. This dog maybe could do Schutzhund but is a dog to work for a very long time on prey work, starting with tying him out with other dogs watchig bite work, and using a tug on a rope to build the prey drive, and then having a decoy pet him calmly. For those of you that know Edgar Kaltenbach he is a master at this. This in my view would be the way to go with this animal. Any defense would just be really against the dogs better intrest at this time. This dog really should not be put in defense, as he is not comfortable with himself or others. There is hope that he can make a nice pet and a fun dog for the sport for you, however I must stress that trained wrong, this dog could become a big problem for you also. With that said no dog is perfect, so if you like the dog around you, train him and use his strong area's to overcome the bad one's and see what happens. If you do want to do Schutzhund, you must find a very skilled decoy to work this dog that really understands diffrent dogs temperments and drives, both in thoery and be able to apply them when working . Good luck and have fun.

I did use the bandwagon term inappropriately sorry guys. Everyone o this thread is trying to help and means well. A nice change from some of these theads and board lol!!!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Chuck & Mike have some excellent points as well. Whoever made the point about the decoy was right!!!!! The dog probably needs prey work buit on th tug by the owner then the sleeve and the evolve to apersn the do fels comfortable with a little and thn keep on evolving to new helpers and situaton as the drives and confidence increases.
I am NOT one of Ed's salesmen but he really as a great selection of tapes for you to gainmore knowledge.

Geore
George