Quote: connie sutherland

I didn't mean anything about e-collars at all.

This is invisible-fence-like, though, right?

Aside from the other invisible-fence problems (like either animal going through, and failure of whatever the power supply is), wouldn't this make the small space the cat was in be the "forbidden zone"?

I don't know. It doesn't seem to teach no-cat to me.

But I have big invisible-fence doubts, period.

A kid walks by when the dog is zapped.

Or redirected aggression is focused on something/someone else in the vicinity.


I never liked them.

Yes, the invisible fence.

First....I don't sell these items, or rarely suggest anyone use them. They do have their place though.

second...I know I haven't been on here for awhile but those that know me know I would never suggest something that is potentially dangerous.

Now, to reply to your concerns. Using it for the cat was probably not one of my better ideas (it will take time and creative work to be successful). It will create forbidden zones for sure if always done in the same place. It could also create forbidden areas wherever the subject cat happens to be. The dog will equate the cat to the stim and more than likely not a specific area if one were to station the cat in different places throughout the home with the device. The dog will know for sure that the cat is the culprit of the correction, not the area they happen to be. Not alot unlike crittering with an ecollar.

I can understand your concerns regarding redirected aggression. I would NEVER suggest this tool if I thought that would be an issue. To be honest...I've never seen this happen with an efence. I have seen it happen behind a REAL fence with my neighbors Chessies and they dont have any collars on them.

Again. I'm not a hard core efence guy. It's a tool. One that I use a heck of a lot less than a bark collar.

BTW what's with Kelly making a statement about bad dog owners allowing ecollar prongs to put holes in their dogs' necks if she believes the OP is responsible and will do the right thing other than to put her biased point across about how much she doesn't like the efence?

And Connie...what's with the word "Zapped"? You know better. lol

And Howard ... yeah, I know better. LOL

See how much I do not equate so-called invisible fences to real e-collars?


I don't like them and I don't think I ever will. You rarely suggest anyone use them and I never do.

We are practically twins.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

I don't like them and I don't think I ever will. You rarely suggest anyone use them and I never do.

We are practically twins.

When I do suggest them it is to mostly pet people who just want to fix a specific problem and don't really want to spend the time to train thier dogs otherwise.

We've not heard from the OP. Not sure what that means regarding her commitment to this issue.

 Quote: kelly byrd

I'm not at all against e-collars. I use one every time my dog goes outside off leash.

There must be a good reason for this. Maybe it's to stop your dog from doing something wrong? ecollar=invisible leash=invisible fence right?

 Quote:

That said, I despise invisible fence. They don't solve any problem,....

I beg to differ. Your bias is glaring because of your bad experiences with bad people treating dogs badly. Blame the scumbag, not the tool.

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Have to go to work. (cleaning off the necks of dogs with invisible fence punctures from the collar being on for so long!)

Again...bad people. Not bad tool.


I'm not crusading for the efence but your heartfelt bias is what got the ecollar banned in many places in Europe.

Cars kill dogs all the time. Who or what do you blame in that scenario? Extreme example yes, but it applies.

You'll also notice that I didn't suggest an "Efence". I suggested an electronic tool that can be adjusted for varying distances and stim levels for a specific area of the household to fix a problem. Not alot unlike an ecollar except no human error.

And as far as this tool being unfair...well, who do we be unfair to? The poor cat that is being harrassed or the offender? Just saying.

Who stole Howard's login?

Is that you, Lou?

ice tea just landed on my screen Connie!

 Quote: Dannielle StCin

he is OBSESSED with the cats. We have 3, which we had before him, and of course we're always trying to get him to leave them alone. He usually leaves our two tabbies alone, but he WILL NOT ever leave the damn siamese one.

I have three cats, all here before my GSD. The Persian cat is pretty much an ornament within the house, we never actually see her move, the GSD is fine with her. Cat #2, moves about slowly, right up to the dog, the dog doesn’t have an issue. Cat # 3, a Siamese, smartest cat I have ever known {they are a smart cat} tends to instigate matters, and enjoys it. He’ll casually walk into the room, dog is fine, look at the dog, still fine, spring into the air and zooooooom 60 mph, dog not so fine.

I started shutting the cat in the bedroom when he surfaced only to annoy. You stated that he is usually fine with two, what does the Siamese do differently?
Sometimes Kitty needs to be taught some etiquette around the dog.

 Quote: howard knauf

 Quote: kelly byrd

I'm not at all against e-collars. I use one every time my dog goes outside off leash.

There must be a good reason for this. Maybe it's to stop your dog from doing something wrong? ecollar=invisible leash=invisible fence right?

Actually, no. He's got a flawless recall. Fast, reliable. It's there 'just in case'. I never know what will be around the corner, or what dog will come charging up- at some point Koenig's flawless recall will be tested. I'd rather be able to hit vibrate and remind him what I said then end up in a bad situation.

 Quote: howard knauf

 Quote:

That said, I despise invisible fence. They don't solve any problem,....

I beg to differ. Your bias is glaring because of your bad experiences with bad people treating dogs badly. Blame the scumbag, not the tool.

Yup. I'm biased. I've worked in rescue/as a vet tech/as a groomer for FAR too many years to see any positive side to an invisible fence. A dog is a predator. At some point, they are liable to see prey on the other side of that invisible border. Instinct and drive outpowers sensibility and training, and the dog chargers through the 'fence' to get to the squirrel, car, ball, leaf, butterfly. Whatever. It hurt like hell when the dog left. Doggy is not going to want to take that zap to come home again! It HURT! I don't like em. It's a poor tool, IMO.

 Quote: howard knauf

 Quote:

Have to go to work. (cleaning off the necks of dogs with invisible fence punctures from the collar being on for so long!)

Again...bad people. Not bad tool.

Nah, IMO (or course, it's all only opinion) Bad tool. With an impractical use. How many folks who are not willing to supervise a dog while it pottys, or stick a long line on it are going to take a collar on and off each time they let the dog out? Not many... which is why they get left on, crazy tight, and embed in the skin causing hotspots or worse.

 Quote: howard knauf

I'm not crusading for the efence but your heartfelt bias is what got the ecollar banned in many places in Europe.

Cars kill dogs all the time. Who or what do you blame in that scenario? Extreme example yes, but it applies.

I don't have an issue with e-collars at all, when they are used properly and responsibly. It's the lazy man's fence I have an issue with. Cars do kill dogs. The idiot owner with a dog off leash or unsupervised is to blame.

 Quote: howard knauf

You'll also notice that I didn't suggest an "Efence". I suggested an electronic tool that can be adjusted for varying distances and stim levels for a specific area of the household to fix a problem. Not alot unlike an ecollar except no human error.

Not enough control, IMO. Like people said since I posted last- it could easily make the dog generalize areas as bad, not the cat. (or trash)

 Quote: howard knauf

And as far as this tool being unfair...well, who do we be unfair to? The poor cat that is being harrassed or the offender? Just saying.

A simple baby gate 6'' off the floor sectioning off a room for the cat would suffice for immediate relief. Cat always has an escape. I still think a drag line is an excellent (CHEAP) solution, if the OP is still reading.

You'd (the owner) have to be willing to watch your dog. Ideally, always within reach of the line. When dog goes for cat, verbal, and leash correction. He'll get it. Or your cat will get smarter.

 Quote: Howard Knauf

 Quote: Kelly Byrd

I'm not at all against e-collars. I use one every time my dog goes outside off leash.

That said, I despise invisible fence. They don't solve any problem, just like a lid on a trash can does.

Have to go to work. (cleaning off the necks of dogs with invisible fence punctures from the collar being on for so long!) I'll post more later. Or, maybe Connie can elaborate on why a e-fence in this situation isn't fair?

OK. You can't in one post say garbage can lids are good ideas, then say they aren't and equate them to efence to support your claim. That's not credible.

I agree that an ecollar left on that creates holes is abusive. I never condoned that.

Using an ecollar to prevent certain bad behavior is not much different than an efence. Matter of fact, there are those on here that use the ecollar in conjunction with an efence to initially set the parameters in the dogs' head at first use.

Just so I'm clear. Is it OK to put an ecollar on a dog and stim him when he tries to get into a trash can? Or to stop him from doing some other bad doggy behavior? If so, there is no difference...except that with the efence you never miss the opportunity to give the correction.

I use the ecollar to stop crittering. What's the difference in stimming him myself and the dog learning by his own experience to stay away from an object?

A lid on a trash can won't solve the problem of a very determined trash eater. It could, however deter an opportunistic dog, right? One that sees something yummy on the top of a un-covered trash can?

I see an e-collar being a good tool in this situation. Set the dog up to fail, but something yummy in the trash can. Let him think he's unsupervised. (watch closely but from out of site if possible) Correct him with the e-collar when he goes into the trash. This is a situation where you don't mind the dog having a superstitious behavior, right? (trash can bites me!)

I see the e-fence not working nearly so well. What if the dog is in the kitchen with you, and you bump him? Straight into the trash can? Whoops..... You can't control it, so yes, human error and bad timing is not an issue like it is with a e-collar, but there could be other factors that complicate it.

That whole argument makes ANY remote correction equipment sound bad.