The answer is no, i would never allow a ppd or Schutzhund to be a family dog unsupervised. kids will be kids i never allowed anyone to touch service weapon... it's not worth any child getting bit. most people have never seen a serious dog bite. my service dog always stayed in the kennel.

I'm not an expert, in fact I have just completed my first year of "Handler 101" with a reactive super dog, so take my words in that context. I'm chiming in on the management element - that you will not need to correct your pup, and thus not have to inhibit his future training possibilities, if you are diligent in ensuring he never gets a chance to nip, bite, or mouth your kids. That would include not allowing him to chase the kids, either, as that would be a precursor to him getting them close enough to get into his mouth.

We don't live with kids, but I have grandchildren, 2, 5, and 14. My 14 year old grandson has been here for two weeks and he picked up right away on what we needed to do with Jethro. It was great to have him around. My 2 and 5 year old grand daughters were here this weekend and OMG what a chore it was to keep everyone safe. Just the sound of their high pitched voices was enough to send Jethro into a barking frenzy. By the end of the visit I could have him sitting some distance away, plugging him with treats like a slot machine, while the little girls did the things they do.

Throughout the visit I had that picture of Debbie's daughter's arm in my mind, and that guided my efforts. Unfortunately, not all the adults had a clue what was at stake, and at one point I found myself out in the yard with the two little girls running around, Jethro on his leash, and Skipper chasing balls. Well, my 2 year old granddaughter came in too close to Jethro, who was lying in the shade chewing a stick. He got up, not menacing or anything, but moved in close to her and before I knew it, he had jumped at her, face to face with his mouth open. He didn't bite, or close his jaws, and she was not knocked down, but I had a heart attack. I quickly tied Jethro to a piece of garden furniture and picked up the toddler, and took her inside.

After that, I took Jethro to his crate and left him there while I sorted out what to do with my husband. It was after that I realized I needed to be even more vigilant and adopted a policy of not allowing the little girls on the property with Jethro. Luckily we were near the end of the visit and I didn't have to cause much disruption with my new policy, but I was ready to take him for a walk if they came back and needed to come into the house.

The thing is, I was able to help my 5 year old grand daughter learn to have "quiet energy", to whisper to us and move calmly. Jethro, in his crate, was able to settle down because he wasn't hyped on the sound, the movement, and the frantic energy. The toddler, though, has no concept of modifying her behaviour to accommodate the dog.

I was shocked how quickly things devolved to a potentially injurious situation. Kids and young, powerful dogs are a REALLY BAD combination. Luckily I learned my lesson without any marks being left (at least physically). I strongly encourage you to listen to the experience on this board, and despite feeling yelled at, realize it is for the sake of everyone's safety, and not a personal attack on you.

Jager is trained as a handicapped service dog (he's not handicapped I am) and personal protection dog. He hits like a freight train with teeth. He dislocated one professional trainer's shoulder and broke another's leg. Yet plays with the neighborhood children frequently and most of the parents have seen Jager doing bite work.

If you're worried about family members, imagine the stupid things people do to service dogs. We were in a bowling alley and a severely retarded young woman (20 something) escaped her parents & their friends while Jager was in a down stay. She rushed up, dropped to her knees and began beating him mercilessly (we're talking fists) while bleating, barking, lowing and meowing at the top of her lungs. She thought she was acting appropriately. Jager took it (she wasn't one of the stupid people I mentioned). Later when she was having a temper tantrum I let her pet Jager with supervision and she petted him nicely. People have jumpped out from behind a display at the store to see what he'd do and stuck their hands and objects in his face while making noises.

It is a matter of training the dog in every aspect of his/her life. From socialization to drills where the helper almost attacks you but turns it into a hug. Drills where you argue loudly with the helper, get finger poked in the chest while the dog watches calmly until the other person violates the ROE.

Some dogs lack the nerve and temprement and and others the courage. One must be prepared to admit that their dog is going to be a dog. Having said that one shutzhund club locally told us that Jager had zero potential and we shouldn't expect anything from him except the ability to turn dog food into dog poop. They of course, got that wrong.

Red, if someone pokes me in the chest they're dog bit because if they could poke me they could stab me.

 Quote: john axe

Red, if someone pokes me in the chest they're dog bit because if they could poke me they could stab me.

oddly enough, when I'm about with Erika people don't want to get that close

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: derek masterson

 Quote: anne jones

Teaching the dog obedience is the first level to teaching a sport dog (or PPD) The handler decides when the dog bites & who it bites. Not the dog.

Yes, I understand. What I was looking for was a suggestion on how to correct or change it.

By not allowing it to be possible. Did you see Michael Wise's post?

JMO!

I've trained and sold several hundred *serious* PPD's ( mostly to Central and South America, where the need for PPD is *REAL* ).
Dennis got a puppy from serious lines, but he' a pretty decent trainer in his own right, and he's savvy about managing dogs and kids together - *most* people aren't.
Hence my statement about kids and PPD's together - it almost never works with a real PPD, and the dogs that are advertised as "kid friendly" almost never can do the job of actually protecting you - it's a fantasy that naive dog owners and unethical PPD trainers support.

Derek, this is not meant to be mean in any way, but the fact that you're having this type of problem already would disqualify you from having a PPD, any serious and ethical trainer would advise you *not* to train your dog for any bite work.

 Quote: Webboard User

I agree with Dennis. Kids and protection dogs can be fine together if the rules are laid out and followed.

Brian...so kids *always* follow rules? I've never found that to be true, and a PPD is every bit as dangerous as a loaded weapon around kids - the two just don't belong together.

I did train two "pets" before I stepped up to Erika and then she was the "mild" one of the litter, I stepped it up again with "Drago" who is proving to be more challenging who already decided that knocking the fat guy in suspenders(me) off his feet is SO much fun.

Will, I think that some people are confused as to what a REAL PPD is.. rather than a dog that will bite to protect his owner. Toni will bite to protect me, but she is not a PPD.

Will, can you explain WHAT a PPD is, what it takes to live with one, and the on-going training that is required when one buys a PPD??

--Kel

 Quote: Will Rambeau

 Quote: Webboard User

I agree with Dennis. Kids and protection dogs can be fine together if the rules are laid out and followed.

Brian...so kids *always* follow rules? I've never found that to be true, and a PPD is every bit as dangerous as a loaded weapon around kids - the two just don't belong together.

I would never leave any dog, any breed, with any kind of training around any child unsupervised. Just like I would never leave a loaded firearm with a child unsupervised. However, with supervision, both are perfectly safe. I've been around real working dogs my whole life (my two brothers and two sisters too)...we're all still here in one piece. I started shooting before I learned my ABC's, received my first rifle at 8...still here in one piece.

I currently have a GSD I wouldn't consider a PPD dog, even though he's training in PSA, has two real bites on people with bad intentions, and loves all 13 of my nieces and nephews.

This weekend we held a fundraiser for the local PD K9 unit. It was a dog wash. 9 dual purpose K9's all washed by...kids. No bites. No growling. Just a good 'ol time raising money for the department.

If a child gets bit by a dog, regardless of breed and training, its the parents, and the lazy dog owners fault.