Reg: 07-13-2005
Posts: 31571
Loc: North-Central coast of California
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OMG, how horrible for all concerned.
I know it's easy to be a Monday-morning quarterback, and I hope not to sound judgmental, but a leashed dog, vigilant owner on the other end of the leash, isn't going to have a little kid be able to run up and throw her arms around him.
I sympathize with the owner too; my heart aches for the owner. But the dog was the only completely innocent one here, IMO; far better management on the part of either the owner OR the parents would have prevented this horrible outcome.
Manage manage manage the dog. Never allow excited or unknown or multiple people of any size to approach within touching range. This has been said in so many ways by so many people on this thread:
I will even stand between the dog and the person.
... you should be reluctant to let adults and children get all that close to your dog.
I always say to people "you NEVER know what's going to set a dog off"
And if I do bring him somewhere that kids are involved I don't let him leave my side.
We cannot be responsible for a parent's or child's actions -- only ours.
Tracey, you wrapped it up well: It just isn't ever worth the risk - for people, children or dogs.
Reg: 12-06-2010
Posts: 721
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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I found the original post surprising, because the dog was being put in situations that I would not dream of. It sounded like the OP was expecting his dog to be something other than a hunting/guardian breed. It is clear to me that the incidents that prompted the OPs post were indicative that the OP was not reading his dog accurately and putting his dog, and others, in danger. With that said, I would question the OPs reading of the dog with the home-schooled kids, as well. If these other incidents indicate mistakes in judgement and handling, then the same could be said of this situation.
No matter how much confidence you have in your dog, or in the children, it is not a safe mix. Please protect your dog from making a life-changing mistake that you will regret the rest of your life. It only takes a SECOND for an incident to happen.
When kids or others want to pet my dogs, which is rare, because I pretty much keep my distance and they get the message, I always say, "No, he is in training," and put even more distance between us. It also helps that my big boy has two leashes, a head harness, a flat collar and a chest harness. For some reason, we tend to be left alone, which is just fine with me.
You are right of course, the dog was the only innocent in this mess; I have been asked to attend a fundraiser in the summer for our club with my 2 BB's and I have politely declined because I know there will be loads of other BB's and kids there, and I am just not prepared to put the dogs in a situation they will be stressed in, it would be an alien environment and they don't need to be put in it.
I have few people come in at home because the dogs are a guardian breed and I don't expect them to give unknown people the relaxed welcome they give family, who they are used to, it isn't necessary for them to be all things to all people, so I just don't feel the need to put them in that situation.
There are a bunch of tiny children on our close who walk their small yappies up and down with out any parental supervision, and if I am coming back with my lot I am blunt with the kids who start coming toward us, I care more about protecting my dogs from provocation than I do offending neighbouring children who don't have the sense to stay away, and I care even less about telling the parents why when they get the snot about me repelling their children.
Too bloody bad frankly, my way results in no possible 'incidents' with small kids, or my dogs on death row.
Thanks Connie, I'm getting adjusted to having a working dog. I will assess my access levels with Hank for everyone.
We homeschool our kiddo's and we have a 'co-op' group (4-5) of families that we share the insanity with. They come over from time to time for play dates and such (just kids no dogs), Hank is well socialized with 4-10 yr olds, he just got the 'privileges' to go play with the kids here a few months ago, after about a hour keeping up with the kids my wife says he comes in and crashes at her feet. (Wow it was nice to put up the ex-pen, kind of like putting up the booster seats at the kitchen table!)
Ken, I have large groups of preschool children at my home daily. I would not leave any of my dogs with children unattended. My dogs are all good dogs with good nerve.
Be very careful correcting a growl. When a dog growls, that is his nice way of saying that he is uncomfortable. He has no other way to communicate this. If you correct for the growl, and remove it from his behavior, you are left with body language, and then a bite. If you are not experienced enough to read his posture, you will be left with no warning and a dog moving faster than you can imagine, and bad stuff from there on out. Your dog is reaching maturity and is naturally going to try and find his new, testosterone driven place in the pack. Pay very close attention to your dog. He's talking to you, and you're not picking up what he's saying. Eyes on your dog all the time when meeting people, even people he knows, especially when embracing or shaking hands. Confident, aloof and neutral are what you need him to be. His temperament is fundamentally different than that of a Lab. Please don't expect him to be something he is not. The results could be devastating.
IMO, the best thing to do when he growls someone off is to stay calm, body block the offending person placing your dog behind you, and politely ask them to leave him alone. This will reinforce your position as pack leader, immediately remove the offending person from danger, and show your dog that you understand him, will protect him, and will make the decision for the pack about who to fight. If all goes well, when you see him leave drive and settle, mark and treat and give calming praise. Foster that calm state of mind.
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