Connie Sutherland wrote 05/05/2012 05:23 PM Re: Dog Sense by John Bradshaw [Re: David Winners ] #360195 - 05/05/2012 05:23 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	I'd go so far as to say "Don't read one. Reading one might be worse than reading none." Who doesn't know a trainer who has exactly one cookie-cutter POV and "system" and the dog darned well better fit it? I really believe that you have to read many .... because of this: "Instead of getting stuck, disagreeing on a singular point, it doesn't mean that there may not be value in other things being said further on. Hmmm...I think you guys have just given me a better way to approach these books."
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David Winners wrote 05/05/2012 05:39 PM Re: Dog Sense by John Bradshaw [Re: David Winners ] #360198 - 05/05/2012 05:39 PM
David Winners Webboard User Reg: 07-03-2009 Posts: 705 Loc: Bryan, Ohio Offline	Quote: Eric, I like what you said about what David said about what Bob and Connie have often said. Who's on first? LOL I know that when I read a book, any book for that matter, that there is going to be something I disagree with, usually in the preface or introduction. I don't really care though. I know that a behavioral scientist with 30 years working with dogs is going to have something to offer my little brain.
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CJ Barrett wrote 05/05/2012 08:43 PM Re: Dog Sense by John Bradshaw [Re: David Winners ] #360211 - 05/05/2012 08:43 PM
CJ Barrett Webboard User Reg: 04-19-2009 Posts: 1797 Loc: Offline	Gosh, just re-reading that, I hope it didn't come across as sounding arrogant. There's absolutely a ton of stuff that this pea brain needs to learn as well. I should have said that, with books, maybe it's not so much that they lose credibility (I'm sure whatever they did or believe completely works for them), I think it’s more that I lose interest and never pick the book up again. Maybe if I could ask questions or maybe it's more the writing style. I love listening to lectures and going to seminars. And of course dog training DVD’s are just the next best thing to sliced bread. I don't watch a lot of movies but I can stare at Michael Ellis all day long. Maybe it's me and books, just not an avid reader.
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Jenny Arntzen wrote 05/05/2012 09:04 PM Re: Dog Sense by John Bradshaw [Re: David Winners ] #360214 - 05/05/2012 09:04 PM
Jenny Arntzen Webboard User Reg: 12-06-2010 Posts: 721 Loc: British Columbia, Canada Offline	I find I am getting different things from different authors over time, as well. I like reading a wide variety of dog information because I need all the help I can get! For instance, when I first watched "It's Me or the Dog" I found Victoria Stillwell's manner off-putting and I felt her methods were not going to help me with 90 lb of mayhem. Recently I decided to re-watch my entire dvd collection and started with that set. I was surprised at how many ideas I was getting to freshen up my work with Jethro. That is what I got from Bradshaw's book, most strongly. Our relationships with our dogs are not simply one size fits all methods. On any given day, at any given time, in any given situation, I need to be sensitized to my dog's possible interpretations and responses to the situation. There is no cookie cutter that can prepare me for that. I need a history of experiences, a deep commitment to working with my dog, and confidence that we will, and can, sort our way through any situation we are faced with.
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Mara Jessup wrote 05/05/2012 09:52 PM Re: Dog Sense by John Bradshaw [Re: CJ Barrett ] #360224 - 05/05/2012 09:52 PM
Mara Jessup Webboard User Reg: 12-28-2005 Posts: 2316 Loc: Offline	Quote: CJ Barrett In fact, in my last Leerburg order, last year, I purchased Volume 111 (because it was so highly recommend) of the Applied Dog Behavior and Training Handbook (mind you "hand" book is not a term I would use for this volume of text ) but have yet to open it in fear of being exposed to older or more singular method biased details. Plus, I'm just not an avid recreational reader. The volume that I have (and at the moment it escapes me bacause I haven't picked it up in about 3 months...) to be more of a look into the science of how dogs learn as opposed to a "you must do it this way" approach. IMO it's more of a textbook than a how to train book. I've found the book facinating, but I haven't read it cover to cover or anything. I'll pick it up, read a couple pages and let it digest before going back for more! K-9 Knitter
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Bob Scott wrote 05/05/2012 11:40 PM Re: Dog Sense by John Bradshaw [Re: David Winners ] #360235 - 05/05/2012 11:40 PM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	Mara said; "IMO it's more of a textbook than a how to train book". Bingo! Vol I Etiology and Assessment of Behavior Problems Vol II Adaption and Learning Vol III Procedures and Protocols The books discuss everything from Skinner, Lorenz, Pavlov, Scott, Fuller, Pfaffeenberger, etc to Koehler. E-collars to clickers and how they work and don't work. I can only scratch the surface on what's covered. old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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CJ Barrett wrote 05/06/2012 10:25 PM Re: Dog Sense by John Bradshaw [Re: Bob Scott ] #360308 - 05/06/2012 10:25 PM
CJ Barrett Webboard User Reg: 04-19-2009 Posts: 1797 Loc: Offline	Quote: Bob Scott Mara said; "IMO it's more of a textbook than a how to train book". Bingo! Vol I Etiology and Assessment of Behavior Problems Vol II Adaption and Learning Vol III Procedures and Protocols The books discuss everything from Skinner, Lorenz, Pavlov, Scott, Fuller, Pfaffeenberger, etc to Koehler. E-collars to clickers and how they work and don't work. I can only scratch the surface on what's covered. There we go, that's the types of recommendations that had me forking out the 100+ dollars for this book. I rationalized it because I don't buy dog training books and thought all that money saved could be funneled into this one highly recommended one. Now I just need to build up the drive to open it.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 05/06/2012 10:52 PM Re: Dog Sense by John Bradshaw [Re: David Winners ] #360309 - 05/06/2012 10:52 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Well, with this kind of book, I can treat it almost as an encyclopedia. That is, I have no problem, once I read the front matter, jumping around when It seems right. Mara said,"I'll pick it up, read a couple pages and let it digest before going back for more!"
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David Winners wrote 05/06/2012 11:00 PM Re: Dog Sense by John Bradshaw [Re: CJ Barrett ] #360311 - 05/06/2012 11:00 PM
David Winners Webboard User Reg: 07-03-2009 Posts: 705 Loc: Bryan, Ohio Offline	Quote: CJ Barrett  Quote: Bob Scott Mara said; "IMO it's more of a textbook than a how to train book". Bingo! Vol I Etiology and Assessment of Behavior Problems Vol II Adaption and Learning Vol III Procedures and Protocols The books discuss everything from Skinner, Lorenz, Pavlov, Scott, Fuller, Pfaffeenberger, etc to Koehler. E-collars to clickers and how they work and don't work. I can only scratch the surface on what's covered. There we go, that's the types of recommendations that had me forking out the 100+ dollars for this book. I rationalized it because I don't buy dog training books and thought all that money saved could be funneled into this one highly recommended one. Now I just need to build up the drive to open it. If you send it to me, I'll have it read and back to you before you miss it J/K... I'm ordering my own copies.
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Bob Scott wrote 05/06/2012 11:29 PM Re: Dog Sense by John Bradshaw [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #360314 - 05/06/2012 11:29 PM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	Quote: Connie Sutherland Well, with this kind of book, I can treat it almost as an encyclopedia. That is, I have no problem, once I read the front matter, jumping around when It seems right. Mara said,"I'll pick it up, read a couple pages and let it digest before going back for more!" Ditto on both Connie and Mara! old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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