 Re: Teaching the Drop It Command
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#361790 - 05/22/2012 07:41 PM |
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Yup, makes sense. 
I use two-ball to teach the "give back" for fetch ... not as a permanent method.
Like marker-training with food doesn't mean that food must be forever be carried around, two-ball likewise doesn't mean that a second ball (frisbee) must be forever carried around. The second ball (frisbee) is gradually phased out.
The dog might have learned that releasing the frisbee means game over, or maybe the dog has learned that he can get a game of wrestle or chase going.
But two-ball can eliminate both of these perceptions, IMHO.
Agreed. And it should be tried. Maybe I did it wrong, it just didn't work for my dog.
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Re: Teaching the Drop It Command
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#361791 - 05/22/2012 07:45 PM |
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You're not getting it. If the dog understands the command and refuses to comply, it needs a correction. Marker training is not a bribe. Bringing out another toy in hopes that that as a reward will make the dog want to out, is, IMO, a bribe IF THE DOG KNOWS THE COMMAND. The OP states the dog knows the command. All of my foundation is reward based marker training. My dog understands out. When she doesn't out, she gets corrected. How is that compulsion based training? Yes, I taught an out with compulsion because marker training didn't work. I stated that, IMO, pretty clearly.
The OP said his dog was marker trained, knows the command, and refuses to do it. You wouldn't correct for that?
Absolutely agree! One thing, though: How many times have we read "the dog KNOWS the command" only to find out pages later that the dog knows the command in a certain venue, or when given with a certain pattern, or inconsistently (sometimes rewarding non-compliance with a fun little chase game, say).
So backing up is probably a good idea. Two-ball is one way to start over; back-chaining is another.
All JMO!
I'm going off what the OP tells us in his posts. If it comes out later that's not the case, so be it. But I'm too lazy to do that much research.
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Re: Teaching the Drop It Command
[Re: Katie Finlay ]
#361792 - 05/22/2012 07:47 PM |
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Neither of my dogs will voluntarily let go of anything.
Not at all to jump on you, but a general observation: I might look at how I trained that link in the fetch chain.
What I've grown to really prefer is back-chaining. That release into my hand can be taught and practiced on the couch!  It can be taught and practiced away from the excitement of the actual fetch action.
For me, two-ball is kind of a short-cut, but I think it's a valid jump-start.
All JMO, though.
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Re: Teaching the Drop It Command
[Re: Katie Finlay ]
#361793 - 05/22/2012 07:53 PM |
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IMO, there's a method the OP has yet to try, and I don't think his "Out" or "Drop it" is as reinforced as it could be.
I DID understand everything you said, and agreed with most of it.
Sadie |
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Re: Teaching the Drop It Command
[Re: AJ Evans ]
#361794 - 05/22/2012 07:54 PM |
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Conan maybe. But I think it's part of Danni's personality. Conan was generally far easier to teach an out than Danni was simply because one ball/toy/etc is enough to get her drive going. She prefers to play with herself than with any person. Once I got engagement going it was easier to work with her.
I did the releasing in the house on my bed but it never transferred for her.
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Re: Teaching the Drop It Command
[Re: AJ Evans ]
#361795 - 05/22/2012 07:56 PM |
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I don't know the OP, his history, or his training methods. What I read is that the dog knows out and won't do it. I don't have time to do all the digging.
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Re: Teaching the Drop It Command
[Re: Katie Finlay ]
#361796 - 05/22/2012 08:00 PM |
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... I'm going off what the OP tells us ...
I'm not. At least not completely.
Who knows what inconsistency or pattern may have arisen around teaching the dog to release his favorite item?
I'm lazy too. So my response is "back up and re-teach that 'frisbee out'."
Actually, I'm hoping Bob Scott sees this thread. It was under his tutelage that all my fetch and retrieve problems were resolved. 
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Re: Teaching the Drop It Command
[Re: Katie Finlay ]
#361797 - 05/22/2012 07:59 PM |
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I don't know the OP, his history, or his training methods. What I read is that the dog knows out and won't do it. I don't have time to do all the digging.
Then you're right... I'm not getting it.
Sadie |
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Re: Teaching the Drop It Command
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#361798 - 05/22/2012 08:04 PM |
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I don't know the OP, his history, or his training methods. What I read is that the dog knows out and won't do it. I don't have time to do all the digging.
Then you're right... I'm not getting it.
What don't you get?
As Katie says, the O.P. clearly stated that the dog knows the out command thoroughly and refuses it for one item. A correction moment, right?
OTOH, I suspect that there might have arisen some inconsistencies around the command. So why not back up and start over?
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Re: Teaching the Drop It Command
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#361799 - 05/22/2012 08:06 PM |
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... I'm going off what the OP tells us ...
I'm not. At least not completely.
Who knows what inconsistency or pattern may have arisen around teaching the dog to release his favorite item?
I'm lazy too. So my response is "back up and re-teach that 'frisbee out'."
Actually, I'm hoping Bob Scott sees this thread. It was under his tutelage that all my fetch and retrieve problems were resolved.
Then that's the difference. I'm giving the OP the benefit of the doubt here. We aren't ever going to know how this dog is trained without seeing it being trained.
I should just go back to my other forum, LOL!
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