i'd go . . .

power of training with markers


power of training with food


power of playing tug


advanced concepts in motivation

IAN - Thank you sir!!

Also: I learned last night from my sister-in-law a little history on this puppy, not sure how relevant it is being it's a ways back in pedigree but there are some working done lines in the pedigree. Sire Side: Aiko Vom Volkersberg + Cheyenne Vom HI-Tech...Dam side is show dogs....damnit!!!

 Quote: steve strom

Hey Kenneth, I think the point should be, don't try to interpret a little suspicious barking at a door and a stranger as being much of anything.

Good thing to note, that everyone, in one way or another, is saying.

Just wanted to say, definitely don't write the dog off for Schutzhund just because there's little working lines in the pedigree. I'm trying schutzhund for the first time with my rottie that has only a few SchH 1's in the pedigree. While the training is going alot slower and it's more work than the other dogs in the club, he's progressing and doing o.k. so far. With a good trainer you can get there it just may take a little more work to get there but it's worth it.

approach it like this ken : whatever potential the dog has , you are going to do your best to get the most out of him , for the betterment of both of you and your relationship .

put another way : it doesn't matter so much what you got , it's what you do with it that matters .

 Quote: ian bunbury

approach it like this ken : whatever potential the dog has , you are going to do your best to get the most out of him , for the betterment of both of you and your relationship .

put another way : it doesn't matter so much what you got , it's what you do with it that matters .

Thank you, that's great advice.

I did have another question pertaining to the Bernhard Flinks videos I have. I don't recall if I have one or two of them but it appears to me that he has fallen out of favor with Ed / Leerburg and Micheal Ellis is now the "go to guy" for many of these things.

Question being, are the Bernhard Flinks videos still useable, as far as the grip / drive stuff goes? I need to set aside some time to re-aquaint myself with much of this stuff and as I mentioned, having some of the older videos doesn't help much because the training has advanced, but I am wondering if I should scrap what I have and just invest in new stuff. If I recall, the Bernhard Flinks videos I have consisted mainly of him "teasing" the dog with a ball on a string for 1.5 hours and rewarding the dog with the prey item.

Yes I'm completely lost. Going to track down the Schutzhund club today and reach out to them to at least open the channels of communication.

 Quote: Kory Fox

Just wanted to say, definitely don't write the dog off for Schutzhund just because there's little working lines in the pedigree. I'm trying schutzhund for the first time with my rottie that has only a few SchH 1's in the pedigree. While the training is going alot slower and it's more work than the other dogs in the club, he's progressing and doing o.k. so far. With a good trainer you can get there it just may take a little more work to get there but it's worth it.

Kory, this is good to hear. Looking at this puppies pedigree, there was a very strong working line up to a point and then someone who obviously didn't care about it bred a female with an AKC dog by the name of Logan Captain Morgan...which I think probably speaks alot for "Logan" and his owners. =( In short, I'm not relying on any sort of pedigree to say that this puppy IS or IS NOT qualified for work. I'd definitely defer to someone else who is more experience and has no bias.

Again, it's good to hear that you are making progress with your dog. Years ago when I was initially interested in Schutzhund, it seemed that most people were very adament that the dog I had at the time would never make it. I didn't know enough to even bother and just took their word for it.

Kenneth;

The worth of the pedigree is up to you and your goals for your dog. If you want to compete above the club level, a dog with a strong working pedigree would be more desirable. However, if you're looking for an activity that you and the dog can do together while he learns to be obedient to you, the pedigree is less significant. In that event, all that is required is drives that you can use for motivating.

When I took an interest in schutzhund, it was abundantly clear that my dog didn't have the foundation to be a quality contender, but she loves me and we love training together, so we do well in our club training. I'm learning to handle a working dog with her assistance, and when I do get a high-drive pup, it will benefit from the lessons I've learned from Sadie.

ETA; The Flinks stuff you mentioned earlier may still be very applicable today. I haven't seen it, but if it teaches using a flirt pole or ball-on-a-rope to build prey drive, then it is very relevant. Building strong drive for the toy is essential because that is the reward system that is most commonly used in training working dogs.
I don't subscribe wholly to any one system. I draw whatever methods work for me from wherever they come from.

Edited by Duane Hull (11/21/2012 11:28 AM)
Edit reason: eta

Duane,

Thanks for the feedback on the Bernhard Flinks stuff. Again it's probably been maybe 7-10 years since I viewed the DVD's I have of what he's doing but as I seem to recall it was all ball on a rope stuff to build prey drive.

Maybe my expectations are too high but if I go down this road, I think that I would like to end result to be SchH 1...probably easy to me to say out of ignorance. =) Which brings a question to my mind--

What really seperates a dog with strict working lines from a dog without those same lines in terms of Schutzhund? I could see that my last dog (boxer) had next to NO prey drive. This dog was unexcitable and had no grip to speak of. I want to be clear that I didn't even embark on any kind of protection training stuff...just ball on a rope and some tug...he wasn't interested or maybe I'm not interesting. haha.

No, he lacked prey drive. However, you will have to up your game. ME's Advanced Concepts video has some exercises for you to practice to 1) teach you how to present the reward to best motivate your dog, and 2) get YOU in shape and solidify your footwork.

Well-pedigreed working line dogs inherently have much stronger drives, especially prey drive. Their conformation is more suited for work, their work ethic and trainability are usually better, and endurance and some other key traits should be better. Their nerves and temperament should be superior.

Schutzhund titles are progressive, and the hierarchy is structured. Your first goal will be the BH. That is the basic obedience and temperament test that your dog will have to pass before he's allowed to go any farther. It is pretty basic and easy, but you will be surprised at the challenges you will face, and you WILL be proud of your first BH. From there, you will be starting to get an idea of just how far your dog can go and what he's best in. A year from now, your goals could be different than they were going in.
If you think you'd be happy getting a dog to Sch1 (now IPO1), then the dog you have now should be able to accomplish that. My dog doesn't bite, but we will go as far as we can in OB and tracking. She loves tracking, and may be able to compete one day, even though she doesn't have the pedigree that the more complete dogs do.