 Re: sick GSD, unsure of diagnosis
[Re: Megan McBratney ]
#375567 - 03/21/2013 10:30 PM |
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Here's hoping the doxycycline does the trick. I don't like the low platelets. Any chance of rat bait?
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Re: sick GSD, unsure of diagnosis
[Re: Megan McBratney ]
#375571 - 03/21/2013 11:41 PM |
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Good to hear she is doing better. My best to both of you.
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Re: sick GSD, unsure of diagnosis
[Re: Betty Landercasp ]
#375590 - 03/23/2013 10:18 AM |
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Here's hoping the doxycycline does the trick. I don't like the low platelets. Any chance of rat bait?
From what I understand (and I ain't a vet) poisoning does not cause a fever.
Also from everything I have read two solid months on Doxy is the standard treatment for canines with a tbd, not 10 or 21 days. Tick borne disease comes back again and again if not treated correctly from the start.
If TBD is suspected and more tests are required here is the form for the specialty lab in AZ. Have your vet pull the blood, fill out the form and send it overnight to them. The woman that runs the lab, Dr. Holland, is super nice. You can call her and she will tell you what to test for in your area (there are lots of different tick borne diseases, have to test for the right ones based on geography). She is one of the top experts on canine TBD's so if in doubt call her!
http://www.protatek.com/PDF/Requisition_Form.pdf
Protatek Reference Laboratory
574 East Alamo Drive, Suite 90
Chandler, AZ 85225
Telephone: (480) 545-8499
Fax: (480) 545-8409
Dr. Cynthia Holland: The laboratory is operated by Dr. Cynthia Holland, Ph.D., an authority on tick borne infectious diseases. Dr. Holland has authored and co-authored over 75 papers in peer reviewed journals and scientific presentations. Dr. Holland was responsible for the original isolation and identification of Ehrlichia (Neorickettsii) risticii, the causative agent of Potomac Horse Fever.
For technical questions and consultation: Dr. Cyndi Holland - cholland@protatek.com
http://www.protatek.com/reflab/contact.html |
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Re: sick GSD, unsure of diagnosis
[Re: Sonya Anderson ]
#375592 - 03/23/2013 12:11 PM |
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Re: sick GSD, unsure of diagnosis
[Re: Sonya Anderson ]
#375598 - 03/23/2013 12:34 PM |
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.... Also from everything I have read two solid months on Doxy is the standard treatment for canines with a tbd ....
Can you link me to this somewhere, please?
I spent about 45 minutes looking up vet protocols last night but didn't find anything higher than "at least thirty days." I did see that protocols have been rapidly leaving behind the old 10-day regimens, but need a link for 60 days.
Thanks!
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Re: sick GSD, unsure of diagnosis
[Re: Megan McBratney ]
#375599 - 03/23/2013 03:33 PM |
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Also, Megan, is there any chance the dog got into raw Pacific salmon or trout?
I know it's a shot in the dark, but both the fever and other early symptoms (fever, often high, depression, anorexia. vomiting, and diarrhea) as well as the low platelets fit.
(As we've posted here time after time, this is not a concern for humans. For canids, an otherwise harmless fluke called Nanophyetus salmincola in raw salmonids from the Pacific Northwest can itself be infected with Neorickettsia helminthoeca, and Neorickettsia helminthoeca is extremely toxic to dogs .... usually fatal if untreated,)
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Re: sick GSD, unsure of diagnosis
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#375600 - 03/23/2013 11:20 AM |
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Here's a discussion of Doxy protocols for TBD :
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/tick-borne-disease-in-dogs-part-ii/
There's more, but here's a quote:
QUOTE:
Tom Beckett, DVM, our advisor and mentor on Tick-L, has worked with rescued greyhounds and shelter dogs for more than 25 years; in that time, approximately a quarter of the large number he has treated for TBD had it recur when he used the standard protocol. He now prefers to treat dogs aggressively, as recommended above.
Suzanne Stack, DVM, who has treated large numbers of rescued greyhounds in Arizona for E. canis, agrees and has made aggressive treatment standard practice.
Steven Levy, VMD, who has studied Lyme disease for more than 20 years and diagnosed the first case of canine Lyme carditis, treats with doxycycline at 10 mg/kg twice a day for 28 days.
In The Five Minute Veterinary Consult, Max Appel, DVM, Ph.D., Emeritus Professor at Cornell, has also indicated a preference for treating Lyme disease with the high-end dose of doxycycline.
In Greene's Infectious Diseases of the Dog and Cat, the dosage of doxycycline for the treatment of Lyme is given as 10 mg/kg every 12 hours for a minimum of 30 days; while at ProtaTek, Dr. Holland finds end-point titers for E. canis extremely important in determining treatment protocol, chronically infected dogs requiring a "more rigorous and lengthy treatment".
As yet, however, many vets appear to prefer the standard treatment protocol for all stages and until more studies are done or experience convinces them otherwise, it will probably remain the treatment of choice.
If your vet chooses to use the standard regimen, be aware that TBD can rebound very fast if your dog's treatment was inadequate to the purpose and only succeeded in suppressing it for a while rather than stopping it cold. Be aware, too, that if TBD does recur, it will probably be harder to control or eradicate the next time. Don't relax too soon if your dog recovers. Have regular bloodwork done and stay vigilant. END
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Re: sick GSD, unsure of diagnosis
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#375603 - 03/23/2013 12:34 PM |
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Can you link me to this somewhere, please?
I spent about 45 minutes looking up vet protocols last night but didn't find anything higher than "at least thirty days." I did see that protocols have been rapidly leaving behind the old 10-day regimens, but need a link for 60 days.
Tick borne diseases are vastly under-diagnosed and under treated in humans and canines.
When one of my dogs was sick for several months and clearly dying a slow death I joined a TBD Canine list and they all said the Doxy protocol for TBD was at least 2 months.
Rocky Mountain spotted fever: Doxycycline MINIMUM 4 months- up to a year or more. RMSF is the most troubling disease and many dogs can become carriers. Repeat Tick Panel and CBC/Chem. (Assume there are co infections hiding).
Lyme disease and Rocky Mountain spotted fever: Ceftin - MINIMUM 2 months- Doxycycline MINIMUM 6 months- up to a year or more especially in older dogs. Repeat Tick Panel and CBC/Chem. (Assume there are co infections hiding).
Lyme disease and Ehrlichia: Ceftin - MINIMUM 2 months- Doxycycline MINIMUM 6 months. We have also used Baytril 3 weeks to mix things up but it will not clear up a Lyme disease infection. Repeat IDEXX 371 Tick Panel and CBC/Chem. (Assume there are co infections hiding).
Ehrlichia and Rocky Mountain spotted fever: Baytril - MINIMUM 3 weeks- Doxycycline MINIMUM 6 months- or up to year especially in older dogs. Repeat Tick Panel and CBC/Chem. (Assume there are co infections hiding).
Babesia and Lyme disease: Ceftin - MINIMUM 2 months- Doxycycline MINIMUM ?? months. Repeat Tick Panel and CBC/Chem and follow dog's progress. (Assume there are co infections hiding). This is new territory for us and we are reviewing the best treatment options for the Babesia coinfection.
Babesia, Lyme disease and Rocky Mountain spotted fever: Ceftin - MINIMUM 2 months- Doxycycline MINIMUM ?? months. For Louis we also used Mepron and Azithromax but after repeated tick panels- the Babesia came back. Repeat Tick Panel and CBC/Chem often. (Assume there are co infections hiding) This is new territory for us and we are reviewing the best treatment options for the Babesia coinfection.
http://www.illinoisbirddogrescue.org/infecteddogs.html
My girl tested positive for RMSF but that wasn't what was killing her, tick borne diseases often infect in clusters.
Link to Canine Tick Borne Disease list, the folks on this list are a great resource:
http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-pluto.exe?SUBED1=tick-l&A=1
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Re: sick GSD, unsure of diagnosis
[Re: Megan McBratney ]
#375604 - 03/23/2013 01:05 PM |
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Sonya, I'm not challenging you. This is great discussion and info. I understand that a rescue site has "boots on the ground" information and results.
I was looking for any vet I could quote as authoritative saying "two months."
The second link takes me to a "join this group" page.
But again, great info. On the Illinois Bird Dog Rescue, do they quote anyone who might be considered an expert (a DVM, state CDC)?
That's just for my own needs. To the O.P., I'd definitely bring this info up with the vet.
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Re: sick GSD, unsure of diagnosis
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#375605 - 03/24/2013 12:12 PM |
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Duh. It was right there in a site linked several posts back (6 to 8 weeks):
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/tick-borne-disease-in-dogs-part-ii/
QUOTE:
There is some dispute about how much doxycycline to use in treating TBD and for how long. On Tick-L, an Internet list for people dealing with tick-borne disease in dogs, most of us who have lived through the fight, some more than once, believe you should hit it hard and for an extended period in an effort to knock it out and prevent it from recurring. We believe and recommend that the dosage should be 10 milligrams per kilogram of body weight given every 12 hours for 6 to 8 weeks. For those who, like me, are metrically challenged, this is close enough to 5 mg. per pound. The standard treatment, as recommended in the Merck Veterinary Manual, is 5 to 10 mg/kg once a day for 10 to 21 days.
Tom Beckett, DVM, our advisor and mentor on Tick-L, has worked with rescued greyhounds and shelter dogs for more than 25 years; in that time, approximately a quarter of the large number he has treated for TBD had it recur when he used the standard protocol. He now prefers to treat dogs aggressively, as recommended above. Suzanne Stack, DVM, who has treated large numbers of rescued greyhounds in Arizona for E. canis, agrees and has made aggressive treatment standard practice.
Most important, has the tick panel been done? This has been an awfully long time. JMO.
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