IMHO and very limited experience, the anticipation comes from having bait placed randomly on the track, and the dog has learned that it will, eventually, find what it wants on the track. IMO, and evidently the opinion of others, that does not mean that the dog has to find every piece. If she finds 99% of it, and doesn't know she mssed 1%, she is not going to give herself an A-; she thinks she succeeded.

A skip is walking right over a piece without noticing it is there. A miss is when the dog's body language indicates that it thinks there is bait, but can't find it. If I'm dropping bait in a footstep behind me and it bounces out and off of the track, it leaves rafts of scent but is no longer on the track. My dog sniffs, raises her nose a little to test the air, then shoves her nose back into the step, but still can't find the treat. I'm not going to let her dwell, or worse, leave the track to find it, so we push on and she finds the rest of the bait on the track. As long as she finds bait further along, it's a win for her, and as soon as she finds it, she forgets that there was one that she didn't find.

As far as the other question goes, my first instinct tells me that, when my dog is not motivated, she gets put up and we try again another later. It's not my case, but if the dog missed a meal, it would seem like he would eventually get motivated. What is the correct answer to your question?

My dog, nor any others in our club, have ever shown disinterest in tracking, so I don't think a rare missed morsel is affecting her motivation. She usually gets a little frustrated when I tell her "We're done", giving me the impression that she wants more.

I know I said missing one piece of bait isn't the end of the world, but missing anything on a track is at the least, not ideal and pulling her away from it when she becomes intent on finding it sure sounds counter productive to me, but I didn't think about not keeping the bait actually on the track. Lol.

Your right, you put them away, but you don't feed them. They have to find it on the track. But why go to all this trouble and never quit baiting tracks through their whole life if it doesn't matter if they skip the bait anyway?

Is it naural for a dog to use ONLY its nose and go footstep to footstep trying to hunt or search for anything? No. They're going to lose interest in doing it that way and start doing anything they can to find whatever it is they're hunting for.

They may not be grading themselves, but you should be as far as why bait was missed. Its a way to gauge where your training is and just how capable of running a track your dog is, dependent of course on you actually putting it on the track. Lol..

" But why go to all this trouble and never quit baiting tracks through their whole life if it doesn't matter if they skip the bait anyway?"

This resonates with me.

I'm finding this thread really interesting.

I thought (and have been told) that the idea was for a dog to run increasingly longer tracks while maintaining a steady pace and searching each footstep with a deep nose.

By your measure, I am a failure, yet my dog runs longer and longer tracks with less bait and more enthusiasm and focus than the previous one. She has learned, with minimal pressure and compulsion, that she must keep tracking, even when there are fewer rewards. If her interest was waning rather than waxing, I would agree.

This is not the first time that I have been told that my methods are incorrect, yet my dog continues to progress. I was told that I was teaching the dumbbell wrong, yet, inside of two weeks, my dog was doing full retrieves over a jump and holding it still for more than three seconds . I was told that I couldn't get a full BH routine with just food drive because my dog would not be motivated enough without constant rewards, yet she can complete a full routine without a single treat.

" But why go to all this trouble and never quit baiting tracks through their whole life if it doesn't matter if they skip the bait anyway?"

To be clear, I'm not talking about skipping baits as a matter of habit. In the past two weeks, over three tracks totalling 800m, my dog has missed one bait that I am aware of. IMHO, that is not a fail, nor a reason to abandon an otherwise sound approach.

Who are you talking to about "by your measure"? Me? Steve? Everyone?

THIS

" But why go to all this trouble and never quit baiting tracks through their whole life if it doesn't matter if they skip the bait anyway?"

This resonates with me.

I'm finding this thread really interesting.


meant "I'd like to hear this talked about."

If it doesn't matter if the dog skips the bait, why do we bait tracks over and over?

Do you have a theory? I'm kinda formulating one, but I get stuck on wanting the dog to pay attention to the track, as well as thinking how much effort is spent on building that motivation "with and for" food.

I am also not a FST expert. I like it, but 'm not a many-dogs FST expert.


Maybe Bob can be lured onto the thread.


Edited by Connie Sutherland (05/01/2013 10:42 PM)
Edit reason: typo

"searching each footstep with a deep nose"



When my beginner dog was leaving significant food, he was NOT "searching each footstep with a deep nose."




ETA
I missed this while I was typing.

"my dog has missed one bait in two weeks"

That isn't what I meant by "leaving significant food."

 Quote: steve strom

Its a way to gauge where your training is and just how capable of running a track your dog is.

This is the measure I was referring to. Of course I would be concerned if my dog was skipping multiple baits (as may be the case in the OP), but I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater over one missed bait.

The original point that I was trying to support was that the food is the motivation to track, but that the dog learns to keep tracking even when the food gets fewer and farther between. I think it is common sense that the motivation would wane if the dog NEVER found food.

Restore post I posted and deleted:


http://airedale-nawata.tripod.com/nawata/TrackingForAiredales.pdf

Scrolling to 8.1, I don't understand how/why to condense the three very different tracks.




Edited by Connie Sutherland (05/01/2013 11:34 PM)
Edit reason: restore my deleted post

"The original point that I was trying to support was that the food is the motivation to track, but that the dog learns to keep tracking even when the food gets fewer and farther between."



Staying motivated with fewer baited steps seems to me very different from a dog "leaving significant bait on the track."


"Of course I would be concerned if my dog was skipping multiple baits"(Duane)

"Your dog missing pieces of food means he/she is following scent, not food. You want this" (Katie) was what prompted me to say that when my beginner dog did this, he was not paying attention to the track, and for sure was not "searching each footstep with a deep nose."



Now I'm thinking in circular tracks, so I hope the thread continues for me to read and not type.



Edited by Connie Sutherland (05/01/2013 11:00 PM)
Edit reason: added a quoted line