David Winners Webboard User Reg: 07-03-2009
Posts: 705
Loc: Bryan, Ohio
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Quote: Ana Kozlowsky
Quote:
The definition of a choke-off in my book is taking a dog's air away by using a twisting motion on a correctly positioned flat collar (under the chin, tight behind the ears), until the dog lets go / calms down. I pair this action with a calm verbal correction.
This Michael Ellis video explains why this method produces effect exactly opposite to a willing release of the object.
Quote:
I will use a choke-off to get the puppy to out something dangerous before training LEAVE IT is complete. I will also use a choke-off if the puppy is attacking something inappropriate, like a smaller dog or cat.
- here is another Michael Ellis video discussing why it is preferable to manage the puppy to keep them away from situations where a strong aversive would be required. Having to "use a choke-off regularly in certain stages of training, and for several behavioral issues" with a young puppy would indicate a training/management issue.
I don't use this technique for behavioral issues with a puppy. I highlighted 2 situations where I would do this with a puppy later in the OP.
Hence the question asked of experienced puppy trainers, because I would like to learn.
I also understand that management works better than conflict. Sometimes we are in a position where management is not possible due to situation, time, or mission constraints. Michael Ellis alludes to this later in the second video.
David Winners Webboard User Reg: 07-03-2009
Posts: 705
Loc: Bryan, Ohio
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Quote: Cathy Goessman
Twisting a collar doesn't really choke most dogs that well. Their necks are strong. My parents Boxer could not be taken off another dog by twisting the collar but a choke chain worked.
I saw a lot of dog handlers have to choke their dogs to get them to "out". Mostly off of plastic bottles or other fun trash the dogs would snatch up.
A lot of military dogs have to be choked off their reward. It's a technique handlers learn very early in their training. We don't have the dogs from puppyhood, and they often come with a certain amount of baggage that we have to deal with. A lot of single purpose dogs have never been taught to out anything, they have always been choked off of their reward, so it takes some time to train a clean out when there are sometimes years of training going against it. We still have to work the dog in the mean time.
As I was taught by military K9 trainers a 'choke off' done their way is much more what in non dog circles would be called a sleeper hold. At least that's the way they taught me. Pinch the carotid (sp?) artery and jugular till they start to pass out. Not so much an air issue. This technique was in no way related to a 'lift off' hold back...or even tie back. Which were used to increase drive bite and fight.
Haven't kept up with the training methods the military uses. That was about 20 years ago......
As far using it on a pup...... I guess it would depend on the pup and situation.
I try to avoid the situations that require it, but I haven't ever done sport training and its been a good looping while since I did PP work.
Anyone get ahold if Will to ask him?
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Re: Choking a puppy?
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