So am I to understand that, if my own dog bites me and it's bad enough that I feel I need medical treatment, if I tell them the truth, authorities will come and confiscate my dog for a 10-day quarantine at animal control?

What are they going to do if I refuse to identify the dog and just say that I know the dog and know it's been vaccinated? I suppose they could refuse to treat me (although I find that hard to believe), but aside from that, what are they going to do?

Have any of you been through something like this? Surely, we must have forum members who have received an accidental bite in training or play that required a stitch or two???

eta: I did read Mara's post where she said she knows a couple people who had this happen where it was their own dog and they refused to divulge the info. Just wanting some more discussion along this line, wondering if anyone else has any experiences to share. Cathy, why did you respond to Mara that "That won't work"?

I have been to the ER several times over the years due to dog bites, and have never had any trouble getting treated. Maybe it's different in my area. They have never quarantined the dog. I am also vaccinated for rabies. Maybe that has something to do with it. I never had to speak to the police either.

In the Military, we go to the Military physician, so it's no big deal.

I agree that the TSA is handling this poorly, but it would take a short time for an investigation to conclude. They would review all the dog's service records, and the same for the handler. They should release a statement in the meantime though.

One thing that bothers me, as a handler, is that no one ever wonders if the dog was provoked.

I agree that a single purpose dog made to search around people should never bite someone under anything but incredible circumstances, but dogs are dogs, and they will defend themselves. Was it stepped on, kicked, something fell on it's head, rolled over with a desk chair, wheel chair, Segway?


ETA: It would be great if all single purpose dogs could be labs, spaniels, etc., but there just aren't enough good ones out there. We're talking thousands of dogs. Out of a kennel of 200, we had 4 labs, a GSP, 2 Cockers, and 2 Chessies.

And, a lot of single purpose dogs are dual purpose drop outs. They paid $4000 for the dog, so they are going to use it for something. I'm in no way justifying this, but it's reality.

David;
Thanks for the reply. It's nice to have feedback from someone with real-world experience.

In the news report, there is a link to a government report on the PSCs. In the report are several photos of the dog working in crowds of moving people, actively screening passengers as they pass by in traffic areas. If there is the slightest possibility that an individual dog may be reactive to the actions of a passerby, would it be reasonable to expect the handler to exercise due diligence to muzzle or otherwise prevent possible bites?
Putting aside any bias that I may have toward working canines, I think that the civilian traveler should have a reasonable expectation that a government agancy would take any and all necessary precautions to assure that the methods they incorporate will not compromise my safety.

 Quote: Duane Hull

David;
... would it be reasonable to expect the handler to exercise due diligence to muzzle or otherwise prevent possible bites?

Yes, it would be practical, and wise to muzzle these dogs, because there is always a chance that something could occur that may illicit a bite from the dog. It's a matter of training. Anything that distracts a dog from working is a liability until it is no longer a distraction. The dogs would have to be trained to work in basket muzzles. It's not a problem with most dogs, but it takes time and knowledge on the part of the handler. It is certainly worth it, IMHO, but not all handlers are going to spend the time to ensure their dog will work in muzzle. I was part of a test group that went through this training process, due to an unwarranted bite by another team down range, and it does take a while. IMO, Fama was never as good in muzzle as without, but the difference was not great. The training took about a month to implement with us, and she was already very comfortable in muzzle before training started.

Muzzles also have a striking visual impact, making a dog look dangerous to the public. Soldiers were always more intimidated by Fama in muzzle. It makes no sense to me, but that's the common perception IME. This should not, but may, influence the TSA on their willingness to have their teams work in muzzle.

They have a difficult work environment to train for. The best dog for the job is confident, with solid nerves, and aloof. The social butterfly who loves everybody is going to be distracted in certain situations until it is fully mature, and has been proofed to work under extreme distractions. Dogs that are less distracted by crowds of people, some of which are desperately trying to get the dog's attention, are aloof. Many of these same dogs will take offense to someone getting into their space. It's a tough situation, and one reason that many agencies will not search in crowds, and will not search people.

It's a challenging environment for a dog to work in that kind of distraction for hours. It's not performing a set routine in a handler focused manner. They have to work fairly independently, and be willing and able to follow their nose and guide the handler to source. It's a fine balance between handler and dog. You share responsibility for the job, and have to read each other. The dog definitely has a say in what you are doing, so it's not focused on the handler, it's focused on the job.

I didn't explain it very well, but I hope you can see the difficulties inherent in this kind of working environment. I hate that someone got bit. I think the situation could probably have been avoided, but at the same time, I'm going to reserve judgement of the dog and handler until the investigation is complete. We don't know the whole story, and while tragic, I feel one bite out of thousands of hours of detection work performed is a small price to pay for the safety of the public.

I'd let that dog bite me every day for the rest of my life if it meant it was going to find just one device.

Thanks for the insight, David.

Considering that TSA has not been able to use the PSC teams for the purpose for which they are publicly funded, the cost and issues that they have had operating the teams that are working, and now the likelihood that they are exposing themselves to liability as well as exposing the public to potentially dangerous, undertrsined canines, I think they should scrap the existing program and start over at square one (training and certification).

Maybe they could employ you as an independent consulting contractor.

 Quote: Cheri Grissom

So am I to understand that, if my own dog bites me and it's bad enough that I feel I need medical treatment, if I tell them the truth, authorities will come and confiscate my dog for a 10-day quarantine at animal control?

What are they going to do if I refuse to identify the dog and just say that I know the dog and know it's been vaccinated? I suppose they could refuse to treat me (although I find that hard to believe), but aside from that, what are they going to do?

Have any of you been through something like this? Surely, we must have forum members who have received an accidental bite in training or play that required a stitch or two???

eta: I did read Mara's post where she said she knows a couple people who had this happen where it was their own dog and they refused to divulge the info. Just wanting some more discussion along this line, wondering if anyone else has any experiences to share.

I'd also like to hear from some of you bite victims. The professional trainer that I train with is scarred along the full length of both of his arms and has scars on his legs and torso. He has been treated in the emergency room numerous times, and, to the best of my knowledge, no dog has been quarantined relative to him being bitten.

"One thing that bothers me, as a handler, is that no one ever wonders if the dog was provoked."

Ditto!!!!!

 Quote:

"One thing that bothers me, as a handler, is that no one ever wonders if the dog was provoked."

Ditto!!!!!

As a lover of working canines, I certainly empathize with this sentiment. When I read this article, I wasn't sure that the victim was as innocent as she claimed.

As an owner of a GSD, I know that it doesn't matter. If I take my dog out in public and it bites, whether provoked or not, I will be held responsible. I always fear that some small dog will rush my dog, and my dog will react in self-defense, because, right or wrong, I will be viewed as the bad guy.

bump for bp

Being viewed as the bad guy, and being found legally responsible are very different things.

After an incident, the dog team will undergo an investigation that will review the dog's training and operational records, as well as performance reviews by the supervisor of the team. They will try and establish a pattern of conduct. That's why handlers keep meticulous records.