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Re: transition training
[Re: Ann Henderson ]
#32088 - 08/25/2004 11:18 AM |
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Try using a white bumper that you can pick up from any pet store. This way you can easily see it and so can the dog. At least until the dog understands the exercise of going out straight and to the "end" of the field. A kong on a hanging tree is almost invisible to me if I'm quite far back. I'm convinced that is why the dog starts to search too.
Ohno Von Kaykohl Land & Troll Vom Kraftwerk. |
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Re: transition training
[Re: Ann Henderson ]
#32089 - 08/25/2004 03:37 PM |
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But John, that brings me full circle: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
If the dog can't see the target (ie in trial conditions), how do I transition her from only going to a visible target, to...running out even if she can't see it?
Now mind you, on a home field, and if the target is in an area she's already been successful in finding it, it's not a problem. But move that target, and she goes in to the search mode.
I thought Robt's idea was to transition-learn the dog from going to a specific target to running to "a boundary", (which there certainly will be one of at a trial field...I would hope!).
Do I have that concept correctly, Robt?
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Re: transition training
[Re: Ann Henderson ]
#32090 - 08/25/2004 04:55 PM |
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Exactly Ann, you use a target. . .the target is a fence, or a bush, or some boundry mark that you teach the dog.
He learns that you point a direction, he runs to the first boundry along that line and his ball will be there at the fenceline, or bush, or grandstand, or whatever.
The idea is that there will always be a boundry or target at a trial. . .the one thats at the end of the field, or some physical structure somewhere. LOL Thats where you put the ball and thats where you train the dog to go.
You don't place a target on the field, bad idea IMO.
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Re: transition training
[Re: Ann Henderson ]
#32091 - 08/25/2004 05:07 PM |
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Ann,
I've seen and used targets in ths past, and they led to undesirable behaviors at trial time.
That's why the hanging tree method came into practice with Bernard - the dog doesn't see an item or target ( with the boundry being the actual target, as VanCamp pointed out ) and the dog is actually working via trust, as he's always been rewarded for the proper behavior in the past, and he'll do the proper behavior in trial, as he expects the reward.
Watch a trial closely, you'll often be able to tell the dogs that are trained via targets or items left on the ground by the dogs searching behavior - and point deduction.
Targeting *can* work however, if you know the exact lay out of the field for the big trials, which are often football fields. Just erect a full size set of goal posts in your backyard or training field and instant pattern training! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Yes, that's a sarcastic joke.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Re: transition training
[Re: Ann Henderson ]
#32092 - 08/25/2004 06:32 PM |
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Will, what does Bernhard do? Hanging Tree?
You got me curious now. LOL
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Re: transition training
[Re: Ann Henderson ]
#32093 - 08/25/2004 06:55 PM |
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Yep, a black metal hanging tree, holding a dark, hard-to-see ball on a string hanging on a quick release clip.
I made one myself out of a garden plant holder, and it works just fine.
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Re: transition training
[Re: Ann Henderson ]
#32094 - 08/25/2004 08:12 PM |
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I like the method I outlined better, IF there were searching issues you don't see them till the dog gets out to the place where a ball would be. . .and that's OFF the field.
In trial he downs long before that, you won't see point loss for casting or slowing. In fact the dog keeps going fast cuz he knows he has a ways to go. . .the point where the reward is set up is still WAY out there.
And I don't have to build a set-up.
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Re: transition training
[Re: Ann Henderson ]
#32095 - 08/25/2004 10:54 PM |
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Just one more verification: I will assume I allow the dog to see me actually place the toy at different boundaries for the first-so-many times, at least until she gets the concept...?
(The way I see it, not allowing her to see me place the toy would only reinforce a search mode, or at best, trial-n-error learning....)
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Re: transition training
[Re: Ann Henderson ]
#32096 - 08/25/2004 11:14 PM |
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Show 'em as often as you think is necessary, especially while extending the criteria over time as you work on different types of boundries and distances.
What's really cool is to place them prior to training in different locations, and then going out and doing send outs to different boundries where you put a ball and the dog learns that, "holy crap. . .anywhere he points there is a ball!!".
We're like Gods to 'em. LOL he he he
It works great. I learned this recently and tried it all on my lonesome and my sweet little Emma has a killer send out. She streaks out like I fired her from a cannon.
Her down isn't so fast, but we're working on that. She has issues with down. . .little bitch. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Re: transition training
[Re: Ann Henderson ]
#32097 - 08/26/2004 11:50 AM |
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Quote: But John, that brings me full circle:
If the dog can't see the target (ie in trial conditions), how do I transition her from only going to a visible target, to...running out even if she can't see it?
The target only needs to be visible in the beginning when you first start training the exercise. Over time as you move farther back neither the dog or you can see it. However the dog "knows" it is there because everytime you send him out in a straight line he finds his reward. I think we are all saying the same thing here.
Ohno Von Kaykohl Land & Troll Vom Kraftwerk. |
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