Quote: Julie Sloan

He grumbles with me. This is the first time he has growled at another dog.

For what it's worth, I'm with Bob on this one, Julie -- IMHO, it's Guardy Behavior (not bad, not good, just natural) "This is MY owner, MY space, MY turn with the Vet" whatever ... I would train for some sort of That's ENOUGH Word, so you can use a Positive Command rathar than a Negative Correction (it could be the same verbage as your Leave It or No Bark command).

I agree that you do NOT want to Extinguish all Growling -- This way he is allowed to growl UNTIL you tell him to Stop ... He gets to have his say, but must Quit on Command and re-direct his Focus on You

Duane, I'm curious. If you comfort her when she growls at the vet tech. isn't there a chance she interprets that as you saying it's o.k. to growl in that situation and then she could possibly escalate it from there?

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

I'm interested in the thought process of correcting for growling.

If growling gives a window to thoughts, or says the next step is I'm going to bite, then maybe growling, being permitted to growl, is good?

Or are you thinking that by correcting the dog you are able to tell him "Don't think that way" and keep the dog from getting in a state where it might escalate to a bite?

Here's my own Personal Opinion as a NON-professional:

I want my Akita to guard me & my property, so I want to Hear when she ALERTS -- Then I assess the "Threat Validity" level, and either Encourage further Vocalization OR issue her Quiet command ... My reason for Allowing SOME Growling is this: IMHO, dogs growl as a Warning to the Interloper, but if you Extinguish ALL Growling, then you are setting up your dog for a possible Bite-Without-Audible-Warning scenario (something that I do NOT want from a Pet canine).

That is what the trainer told us.

I don't really think so, Kory, but it wouldn't bother me if she did feel it's okay. By this point, she's already been muzzled and is being handled in a most unagreeable fashion. Usually, the tech having to adjust his grip comes after the initial once-over and just before cavities start getting violated. I don't blame her for being a tad testy about that. The comforting is not done in a reinforcing manner, but rather in a soothing manner (she knows the difference).

You must also bear in mind what I said about context; her growl with the vet tech is more of a warning (which she cannot enforce in the muzzle) than a guarding tone. What I do is more of a downplaying of the threat than encouraging her to stand her ground. Now, when she is being agitated by a decoy and I comfort her, that IS telling her that it's okay to show aggression. It also teaches her to stay focused while being agitated.

Above and beyond all this, she is very people-friendly. Even if I were to encourage her to growl at someone, she wouldn't do it unless that person agitated her. The vet tech is putting a lot of personal pressure on her by restraining her while the vet does most uncomfortable things to her.

FWIW, if she were strictly a household pet, I would have a different set of expectations for her behavior. She is the first dog that I've had that has to be muzzled on the exam table. She has never actually tried to bite anyone in the vet's office, but she gets muzzled because she once growled at the vet when he stuck a probe in her ear. That one incident has created an uneasy air in the exam room that she feeds off of. When the scenario is standing for a judge, there are no issues at all.

This has gotten very interesting, and ultimately not very important after all what was actually on my dogs mind at that moment.

Thanks for the explanation Duane. Makes sense now.

I actually had one of these situations yesterday.

We were coming back off the field, and a chap I have known in the village for yonks, - a dog owner, (he has a big fat horizontally laid back black lab) was walking towards us on the other side of the road, and when he saw me he crossed over.

The thing about this chap is he is a weight lifter, and built like an oak tree, very quietly spoken and a gentle giant, but 6ft+ of man mountain, he got very close, and Kaiser started to tense up, I moved back, Glen moved forward, Kaiser let out a belly growl, I moved back, Glen moved forward, and Kaiser lunged and snapped the air 3 times.

Glen was completely unconcerned, and carried on talking, but I cut in and said I had better be getting them home, Kaiser relaxed and we moved on.

Because it's just me and my daughter living at home, and the only male the dogs see regularly is my son, Kaiser is unused to dealing with men, the man who delivers the news paper is a particular button for him, tall, large, beard, and in the situation with Glen, Kaiser had this gigantic man, moving into our space 3 times, and even though I moved back, giving a good few feet between us, this 'threat' kept on moving back into our space.

I know I should have just said hello and kept walking, but I didn't, and while no contact was made, Kaiser being fearful of this big and imposing man, was telling me loud and clear, 'I don't like it' and went against my usual MO, so my fault for ignoring my hard and fast rules.

bump!

Tracy said;

"Because it's just me and my daughter living at home"

For that reason alone I have no qualms about a dog growling at people "AS LONG AS" you have good control over the dog.