I also use a mixed treat bag. I like Bob's analogy of a slot machine. Keep it random.

"High value" in any economic transaction is about relative scarcity. If bacon is offered as payment for every act, bacon isn't high value any more.

That's why I think that for some raw-fed dogs, meat isn't all that high value. They get a bowlful twice a day. "Junk" is a treat if you never get junk food. Lately, mine are going crazy for those godawful round "cheese puff" things. Puffed corn crap that turns your fingers orange. But 4 or 5 of those things a day isn't going to hurt them--and you should see how fast the recall is when they think they might get one.

 Quote: Cheri Grissom

Again, if we hit on something that works well for our dog, stick with it! There's always a chance it differs from how Trainer A or Trainer B does it, but they're not the ones training your dog at the moment, you are.

Yup - this! Knowing your dog and finding what works for THEM is so important. I saw one dog that was highly motivated by bits of cucumber. That's not a treat that I would ever think of to motivate a dog, but it sure worked for that dog - she'd run to the kitchen when she heard her owner peeling cucumber and all during training her eyes were glued to her person!

 Quote: Bob Scott

In reality I'm not even sure if the average food crazy dog looks at different values of treats. They're all good to him/her.

My dog is super highly motivated for food. She adores our regular training treats, food rolls cut into 1/2 in pieces. I thought she would eventually lose some interest in them, but it seems the opposite is true. As a matter of fact, she begs if we haven't trained recently enough.

I once tried kibble when I wanted to cap her drive. She was motivated at first, but once she figured out that the treats weren't up to snuff, she shut down. I tried the mixed bag thing, but she wasn't used to it, and she wanted to sniff and approve of every treat that I produced (which kinda interrupted the whole "flow" of training).

I reserve a higher value treat (chicken jerky) for certain, more demanding behaviors. However, IMHO, it works because we have a routine that tells her what to expect. When I introduce the higher valued rewards to training, I have to bribe her a little with the first one to show her what's at stake. If I were to reward a particular behavior with a different value treat and she was not expecting it, then there was no reason to expect a different level of interest.

I am not disputing the info provided by others. It just seems to me that, once a pattern or routine is established, it may actually be a disruption to change it hoping for more. It all comes back to what works for this dog.

 Quote: Mara Jessup

 Quote: Cheri Grissom

Again, if we hit on something that works well for our dog, stick with it! There's always a chance it differs from how Trainer A or Trainer B does it, but they're not the ones training your dog at the moment, you are.

Yup - this! Knowing your dog and finding what works for THEM is so important. I saw one dog that was highly motivated by bits of cucumber. That's not a treat that I would ever think of to motivate a dog, but it sure worked for that dog - she'd run to the kitchen when she heard her owner peeling cucumber and all during training her eyes were glued to her person!

Not as surprising to me now as it would have been pre-Oliver, whose favorite thing, which he can smell from rooms away and will come running for, is fresh pineapple. He doesn't get much of it, and then only the size of a pencil eraser, but it's definitely his highest value reward. Who'd a thunk?

All excellent points!

 Quote: Tracy Collins

Lately, mine are going crazy for those godawful round "cheese puff" things. Puffed corn crap that turns your fingers orange. But 4 or 5 of those things a day isn't going to hurt them--and you should see how fast the recall is when they think they might get one.

I tried everything with my last GSD, those cheese puffs were his thing. He was the dog with the orange speckled muzzle.

Always a good look, though ....

 Quote: Tracy Collins

I also use a mixed treat bag. I like Bob's analogy of a slot machine. Keep it random.

"High value" in any economic transaction is about relative scarcity. If bacon is offered as payment for every act, bacon isn't high value any more.

That's why I think that for some raw-fed dogs, meat isn't all that high value. They get a bowlful twice a day. "Junk" is a treat if you never get junk food. Lately, mine are going crazy for those godawful round "cheese puff" things. Puffed corn crap that turns your fingers orange. But 4 or 5 of those things a day isn't going to hurt them--and you should see how fast the recall is when they think they might get one.

Warm bacon is reserved here for "procedures" ..... almost nothing around here rates warm bacon except for the paw, ear, eye, mouth, etc., stuff that is so hard for a dog to tolerate quietly. That's OK, too, because my dogs tolerate eye drops and worse because of procedures marker training with bacon rewards .... both for the patient (his is bigger, and his is first) and also for the others (who wait and watch quietly from a set distance).

And about meat ... agreed! My dogs are raw-fed too, and cooked meat is different enough (different smell, different temperature ... ) to be treat-worthy. A baked poultry breast diced into a zillion tiny rewards seems like a whole other thing, I think, from raw chicken backs. Also, I have no problem sprinkling a little green-cylinder-can "parmesan" on those.

I also plan now, after this thread, to pick up a bag of the orange things. Imagine the thrilled surprise next week?!

Connie--wear old pants when you're doling out cheese puffs. I just came back from agility glass and the front of my jeans are covered with orange smears from wiping cheese dust slobbers off my fingers all night! But 5 happy and tired hooligans laying around. Probably still licking cheese dust off their lips.

Mods, help! This darn post just posted about ten times??? No, make that eighteen times!!! Yikes, one of my keys got stuck.




All fixed

Edited by Connie Sutherland (10/30/2013 09:36 AM)
Edit reason: mod note