 Re: Paw licking. Allergy or bacteria?
[Re: Lee_Reicheld ]
#386140 - 11/11/2013 01:20 PM |
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Thank you guys so much for that great advice and information! I'll take notes and make a list of questions to bring with me too.
I'm not quite sure if the Benadryl actually helped with the itching. It definitely didn't turn it off right away or anything miraculous like that. I think mostly what it did was make him so sleepy that he just wanted to lie down and not bother with his feet.
I'm hoping the hard freezes we'll have over the next few nights will help out, as mentioned. I'll certainly add that to my list of notes to bring with me on Friday if it does, or if it doesn't.
The elimination diet would be kind of a pain since he loves his raw so much, as well as the variety of goodies he gets with it. I've also had him on several proteins. Chicken, buffalo, turkey, quail, beef, venison, duck... I think the only major ones he has never had are lamb and pork.
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Re: Paw licking. Allergy or bacteria?
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#386141 - 11/11/2013 01:23 PM |
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Also, fish oil given with antihistamines bumps up the antihistamine's benefits. I think it was U of Maryland's Vet Med that found about a one-third significant beneficial response from antihistamines for atopic dogs, but that this went up to closer to 50% if fish oil was given concurrently. (Also, Benadryl wasn't in the top couple, based on beneficial response, but that doesn't matter much if it helps your dog; response to antihistamines is highly individual.)
Thanks Connie, I remember you posting that before(I read the health section here like a daily newsfeed) and I have increased his salmon oil slightly. He usually gets 4 pumps of the Grizzly Salmon oil with 400 IU's of vitamin E. I've been increasing the salmon oil slowly over the past few days, and will back off if his poops become soft.
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Re: Paw licking. Allergy or bacteria?
[Re: Lee_Reicheld ]
#386142 - 11/11/2013 01:33 PM |
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You are giving natural E with it (preferably with mixed tocopherols)?
BTW, a derm vet should decide on the order of protocols (like an elimination diet), partly because it does indeed "spoil" any proteins that are novel to the individual dog (because then they are no longer novel). An elimination diet needs to be stringent and also needs to be in the right order.
Also, you probably know that food allergies are way low on the list of likely allergies for a dog. Flea saliva dermatitis is number 1 and inhalant/environmental number 2. Food accounts for maybe 10% of dog allergies (some derm vet research says more like 5 to 10%).
"I think mostly what it did was make him so sleepy that he just wanted to lie down and not bother with his feet." The sedating effect wears off with time, IME. Also, the awful itching of atopy can actually interfere with sleep (the dog's and yours), so that's not really all bad, IMO.
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Re: Paw licking. Allergy or bacteria?
[Re: Lee_Reicheld ]
#386143 - 11/11/2013 01:38 PM |
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I also haven't found Benadryl to be among the most effective. Among the cheap OTC antihistamines, Zyrtec (available as a generic called Cetirizine) was more effective for my dogs.
Hydroxyzine, Meclizine, Chlor-Trimeton, Tavist, and Claritin are all antihistamines that are used for canine allergies. It may require a trial of several to find the one that works the best.
Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon |
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Re: Paw licking. Allergy or bacteria?
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#386144 - 11/11/2013 01:44 PM |
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You are giving natural E with it (preferably with mixed tocopherols)?
Yes, I don't remember the brand, but I remember a post you made awhile ago to a question I had about the E. I bought it at Costco and it was the wrong kind. Well, not the best kind... it was the dl-alpha and I have since switched to one I found online that is the d-alpha with mixed tocopherols. 
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Re: Paw licking. Allergy or bacteria?
[Re: Lee_Reicheld ]
#386149 - 11/11/2013 03:36 PM |
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I forgot to address the barrier defect thing .... I have a dog who is prone not to atopy, but to recurring skin staph.
I'm using a topical that comes in a pipette on him now, and have found a decrease in the recurrence rate. He was almost going straight from one round of antibiotics to the next, and now he's down to half the frequency rate. Not great, but worth the money. (It's a skin lipid barrier aid.)
I don't think it's any kind of a primary fix, but it's something to keep in mind if the dog seems to have recurring skin infections.
http://www.drugs.com/vet/douxo-seborrhea-spot-on.html
http://www.amazon.com/DOUXO-Seborrhea-contains-pipettes-Packaging/dp/B0010V36Q8
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Re: Paw licking. Allergy or bacteria?
[Re: Lee_Reicheld ]
#386181 - 11/12/2013 08:31 AM |
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Thanks Connie, I will bring that info along with me.
Yesterday (Monday) his paws looked great and he hardly paid any attention to them at all. He was pretty much normal. I did a few things which might have contributed and the weather was in the 20's.
1) Washed his paws with KetaChlor.
2) Started him on Benadryl.
3) Withheld his dehydrated veggie mix (Sojo's) that I rotate with Honest Kitchen to supplement his raw diet.
4) Wiped his feet after we came in from outside.
5) It snowed! We had lows in the 20's and he zoomed around in about an inch of snow.
When we do go to the derm vet, will they be able to determine anything if he isn't showing any symptoms at the time? Right now he is pretty much a normal, happy guy. His paws aren't inflamed or raw, ears clean, no smell, not itching, etc.?
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Re: Paw licking. Allergy or bacteria?
[Re: Lee_Reicheld ]
#386182 - 11/12/2013 09:23 AM |
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If everything is perfectly normal, I'd lean towards waiting to see if it starts up again. It seems you can get an appt fairly quickly where you live (some of us had to wait a month!). If the vet has nothing to see, they really won't be able to get a sense of what's going on. JMO
If he's perfect fine with no problems all winter and things start up again in the spring, that's an excellent clue! If he starts having problems next week you can always rebook the appt
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Re: Paw licking. Allergy or bacteria?
[Re: Lee_Reicheld ]
#386184 - 11/12/2013 09:32 AM |
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Thank you Lori, that makes sense. I'll monitor him tonight and tomorrow, and if he's still not having any problems I'll cancel the appointment. I don't want to wait until the last minute in case someone else calls and needs that time.
I am lucky, there are two derm vets close by. One is like yours... I couldn't get an appointment until mid-December. The other one, however, has 4 derm vets on staff and sees people M-F, 8-4, and my vet recommends them too.
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Re: Paw licking. Allergy or bacteria?
[Re: Lee_Reicheld ]
#386290 - 11/14/2013 09:09 AM |
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Well, at least one thing is ruled out ... the dog's food.
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