From the cheap seats:

Some time ago, I just got tired of trying to figure out what motivated the AKC other than to have pretty, well groomed dogs prance around an area to be judged most whatever.

Having tried, successfully, to foster and find homes for some rather difficult dogs over the years, I discovered that no one size fits all when working with dogs. Some dogs required great care and patience, and some were down right fearsome and the I'm OK, you're OK school of training just didn't fly.

I've used several collars. Flat, prong, electronic. Frankly, it depended on the dog and the dog's disposition.

In my experience, using the electronic collar has two uses: one as tone cue, and one as stimulant cue. And used improperly it is little short of vengeance or punishment. My experience with using the electronic collar, is that it is an interim device, for my purposes. It is not a device I rely on in perpetuity.

I know I would never allow my bride to walk one, two or more GSDs without prong collars on. No matter how confident I am in their behavior, there is always a chance some thing can go wrong. Control and safety over appearance is my mantra.

I probably should care what the AKC opines but I just don't.

This commentary is not on topic. I just wanted to vent my spleen.

By way of post script, I've had experience with those who are totally committed to the I'm OK, you're OK school of dog training, and they seemed entirely too quick to think needle when it came to some dogs. Let's see, needle or electronic or prong collar. Easy choice for me.

 Quote: Bob Scott

I believe Ed is working on another DVD on E-collars?

If so I'll probably get one to see how it goes.

In the right hands they can still be an excellent tool!

I still LOVE Ed's original e-collar DVD and find it easier to follow as a practical "How to Use" tutorial than the e-training videos by Michael Ellis (no offense meant to him AT ALL or to any of his devotees, it's just my individual learning style) ... I find e-corrections via the Mildest Stim Effective on any particular dog are SO slight and SO subtle as to almost seem SUBLIMINAL -- That way communicaton between handler & canine is light years ahead of conventional leash guidance, IMHO, purely as a Pet Owner

I actually found the Michael Ellis DVD a bit harder to follow too. I wound up going to a different trainer's DVD. Essentially the same method but more demonstration. My boy was initially confused by stim as a correction but after going through the whole negative reinforcement(escape training) groundwork it became much clearer to him.

 Quote: Mike Arnold

.... I probably should care what the AKC opines but I just don't. ....

Neither do I. BUT it will (or at least can) trickle into all areas, including even (IMHO) legislation.

Particularly when these are their tactics:

 Quote: Cathy Goessman

It does seem like typical PR doublespeak. Personally I've always found it wrong that a newspaper can print a large headline article with false statements on the front page and then retract it the next day in fine print shoved in a corner on the last page. This is kind of the same thing. They made a statement disparaging the use of a certain collar in a very public and inappropriate manner. They should be happy to publicly clarify their position on collars and yet they are only responding privately to e-mails. ....

You're right, Connie.

My frustration is more along the lines of form versus substance.

A truism has to do with an individual not messing with a person or entity that buys ink by the barrel. And that would, of course, apply to a Don Quixote taking on the AKC.

I'm looking at the most recent rescue to cross the threshold of my home, and of the work it has taken to get this mutt to a point of mutual trust, and, while I haven't used an electronic collar with him, though the thought crossed my mind, I certainly use and have used a prong collar. That was a perfect example of a run on sentence.

I've put almost all of the dogs through the AKC CGC qualification course. That noted, it isn't a particularly difficult course. I must be in a snarky mood today.

In my mind, Mr. Frawley and colleagues are the voices of experience and knowledge. The AKC, not so much in the area of my interest which has to do with advocating for the damaged or discarded dog.

I need coffee

 Quote: Bob Scott

I believe Ed is working on another DVD on E-collars?

Ed's NEW Video CLIP on E-Collars has been emailed to Leerburg Online Newsletter subscribers !!! It is "HILARIOUserious"

I'm too compu-challenged to forward it onto this thread, but am hoping someone else here will know how to do that...

 Quote: Candi Campbell

 Quote: Bob Scott

I believe Ed is working on another DVD on E-collars?

Ed's NEW Video CLIP on E-Collars has been emailed to Leerburg Online Newsletter subscribers !!! It is "HILARIOUserious"

I'm too compu-challenged to forward it onto this thread, but am hoping someone else here will know how to do that...

http://leerburg.com/newsletter/09-23-14.htm

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Candi Campbell

 Quote: Bob Scott

I believe Ed is working on another DVD on E-collars?

Ed's NEW Video CLIP on E-Collars has been emailed to Leerburg Online Newsletter subscribers !!! It is "HILARIOUserious"

I'm too compu-challenged to forward it onto this thread, but am hoping someone else here will know how to do that...

http://leerburg.com/newsletter/09-23-14.htm

PS
So did anyone else think at the beginning that they had somehow gotten the keys to the wine cellar?

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Candi Campbell

 Quote: Bob Scott

I believe Ed is working on another DVD on E-collars?

Ed's NEW Video CLIP on E-Collars has been emailed to Leerburg Online Newsletter subscribers !!! It is "HILARIOUserious"

I'm too compu-challenged to forward it onto this thread, but am hoping someone else here will know how to do that...

http://leerburg.com/newsletter/09-23-14.htm

PS
So did anyone else think at the beginning that they had somehow gotten the keys to the wine cellar?

You mean pretending like, "Dumb & Dumber Do Dog Training"? Thanks, Connie !!!

What a great chuckle this video gave me. Before I had Bak I had an e-collar and the trainer I was using made me wear it first before he taught me how to use it on the dog I had then. I was surprised at how the word shock just doesn't describe the sensation. He set it at 5, 10 and then 15 .. it's a great tool when you are trained in how to use it properly.

On the dog I now have, Bak, I have no need to use it. However, if we were going camping in the woods I might get one for use as a recall tool in case of a rabbit etc.

Just the opinion of a non-professional who would never 'shock' her dog but would use an e-collar for safety.