 Re: Questions regarding a dogs drive.
[Re: Aric Buss ]
#394123 - 10/05/2014 05:49 PM |
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One key difference is WHEN the dog barks. Prey dogs bark more when the decoy retreats. Defensive dogs bark more when the decoy advances.
Sadie |
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Re: Questions regarding a dogs drive.
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#394124 - 10/05/2014 05:53 PM |
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One key difference is WHEN the dog barks. Prey dogs bark more when the decoy retreats. Defensive dogs bark more when the decoy advances.
Just to add to what you said the tone of a dogs bark can say a lot too. Prey bark, usually higher pitched/more excited sounding. Defense bark, typically more throaty with less lunging towards decoy or whomever.
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Re: Questions regarding a dogs drive.
[Re: Aric Buss ]
#394125 - 10/05/2014 06:15 PM |
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ok confusing, three clips, 2 different dogs, with kimo the mal does it matter if he is more playful, would you not interpret that as less stress, he is a PSDk9 now, I see no disadvantage to his prey, if the dog has to engage there is going to be a small army of armed police there to back the dog up. how is prey a disadvantage, the bite is going to hurt just as much as this thing people call fight drive would it not?
I guess I am defensive about prey drive (no pun intended) I hear so many people write dogs off as prey dogs, I think it is more versatile and can result in a stronger more reliable dog. hell most bad guys are running away or hiding anyway, without prey you are not even going to find them or catch them.
I liken it to the most aggressive people that win human fights, they are rarely serious, they love it and think it is a game and just love the battle - that to me is a human in prey drive, if that makes any sense.
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Re: Questions regarding a dogs drive.
[Re: Aric Buss ]
#394126 - 10/05/2014 06:23 PM |
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Disagree. And most canine handlers pbly would, also.
Never confused about the clips. Kimo is playing and is most intense when you try to out him. If I'm trusting my life to my partner, I want him all in. The defensive dog is more serious and intense than a prey monster will be. Based on the clips you posted, I'd rather be caught in an alley with the second dog you posted.
Even the most defensive dog has enough prey drive for pursuit. Chasing down an agitator is never an issue.
Like the human analogy... Do you think a human who fights just to fight is deep down as vicious as a guy who's fighting for self preservation?
Sadie |
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Re: Questions regarding a dogs drive.
[Re: Aric Buss ]
#394127 - 10/05/2014 06:29 PM |
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You may have a prefernce for prey dogs, but, again, try rollng around on the ground with a dog who thinks you are a threat to him.
Either dog can perform well. The reason for knowing the different drives is for catering the training to the dog's strengths, and avoiding putting too much pressure on a dog. You have to be able to establish and read the dog's threshholds.
Sadie |
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Re: Questions regarding a dogs drive.
[Re: Aric Buss ]
#394128 - 10/05/2014 06:31 PM |
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yes and no, the guy who fights just to fight is prolly clear headed and is using tactics and skills, which trumps everything else except a wild hay-maker that thru the grace of god happens to land and ends the fight.
the guy in survival mode is usually easy pickings to the cool operator. the guy in survival mode will tend to bolt to survive if the opportunity arises as would an off leash dog with many escape options available to it and at a distance from handler.
survival tends to paralyse you or make you act stupid, neither of which ironically supports your survival.
for the record, I have fought (human on human) for money, I do have some insights into these things.
jmo
as always, I value the discussion, it is all learning, not trying to be right here.
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Re: Questions regarding a dogs drive.
[Re: Aric Buss ]
#394129 - 10/05/2014 06:44 PM |
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Prize fighting is different from a fight for survival, just as sport is different from canine work.
The key to working either dog is getting him to remain clear headed and rely on his training when he transitions into fight drive.
In the first clip you posted, Kimo is not a cool operator while on the sleeve. IMO, I'd rather go to battle with your dog.
Sadie |
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Re: Questions regarding a dogs drive.
[Re: Aric Buss ]
#394130 - 10/05/2014 06:57 PM |
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poor kimo, nobody loves him except me.
he did have to adjust to a new country, strange sights, smells, language in no time flat. apparently an ass-hat to train.
but I get your point, thanks for the discussion.
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Re: Questions regarding a dogs drive.
[Re: Aric Buss ]
#394131 - 10/05/2014 07:15 PM |
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I love a good discussion myself.
I'll leave on this... I don't think Kimo is not a good dog. He'd pbly perform better than most of the dogs I work with regularly. His certification proves it. I can see where his trainers and handler would like to see more edge on him, based on what you've said and shown.
Sadie |
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Re: Questions regarding a dogs drive.
[Re: Aric Buss ]
#394132 - 10/05/2014 08:34 PM |
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duane, when you get a chance, please speculate an answer on this given the limited info on kimo thru the two short clips;
imagine this dog got settled into a good home and bonded well with the handler, he became very familiar with the new club grounds, people and dogs and made friends with the decoy.
dog then has a few months with friendly highly skilled sport decoy on same field getting nothing but prey frustration and prey bites on the sleeve with max prey stimulation only by the decoy. all the while gets obed and control training.
somebody then vidoes the dog over a few sessions and edits out the bad bits and attaches some cool music and some cool slow-mo.
what potentially do you think he would look like then?
lol I tried donating money to this dogs new K9 handler for the dog's training but the dept. never gave me any payment details, I think this dog is misunderstood just cos he is a bit ugly. but hey I seen the original video I know more.
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