Quote: Christina Stockinger

But what you're saying ,Candy and Kelly, is horrible. I don't mean the fact why you're sayinng is horrible but that you have to say it. I was so often been told or had read from different people that if you've got enough leadership you can cure such a dog.

But the way you're telling about your experiences convinces me. I always thought it was my fault, because my leadership is certainly not strong enough but I had the meaning, this could be learned. It's also true that I have not 360° vision. That such terrible incidents can happen with lightening speed I don't need to believe, I know it, as I have experienced it myself.

The other side is, that I love Slippie immensly, she is apart from this danger a wonderful dog. If I had in mind to give her away, I wouldn't find anyone who wanted nor could handle her, because most people here don't train their dogs at all. They let them do what they want, and if the dog misbehaves - even if it is just for bolting out or jumping at them, he would be awfully beaten. To give Slippie up she would have to live in undescribable misery. So I prefer to keep her with a very responsible management. I can keep her in the kennel for some time and give her freedom in the yard and together with us, while the other 3 will be in their kennels. It will be a question of organisation.

She is also muzzle trained. This I had done because I wanted her to be used to it when we had to consult the Vet. Though she has never tried to bite him. But she didn't want him to put her a muzzle on, she was afraid of it. I could hold her mouth with my hands, but he only had to put the thermometer in. If he had had to hurt her, it would probably have been more difficult . I then also thought, it might be necessary in case of a car accident.

Nevertheless I will not allow her anymore to be together with the others, not even when wearing a muzzle. I've heard that in case of violent fight a good fitted muzzle will be certainly be a protection but they can hurt each other also badly with their nails.

I can let her be together with her sister though. She has never done anything to her. Socks is a bit smaller but much more agile. They have only their crazy half an hour in the evening, then they chase each other, this also in high speed and sometimes a bit rough, but it has always been just a game, never a fight. Do you think I shouldn't even allow her this? When I think it might become too rough, I stand up and say "He!" Then they stop.

I am NOT suggesting that You re-home Slippie, not in Brasil, not with their "laissez-faire" attitude toward dog ownership in that country, NOT at all

What I am suggesting is a "crate & rotate" lifestyle with her, in which she must either be crated, or kenneled, or separated by a locked gate from any dog/s she would ATTACK if they were Together -- In the world of Akita owners, they call this "living in a GATED community" where EVERY doorway & archway Inside their Home is fitted with a DOG-PROOF gate that is Never left Open ... Just for myself personally, it would seem too much like being a full-time Zoo Keeper or PRISON WARDEN, but folks do get used to it. And BTW, having my Akita wear a Muzzle was ONLY when she would be ONLEAD in a Temporary Situation where strange dogs might get too close for her tolerance-level by accident (a trip to the Vet for example) but I would NOT leave any Dog-Aggro canine in a Muzzle to run LOOSE with other Dogs !!!

"Curing" and "managing" any situation is only as good as the ability to control that situation.

My JRT wasn't the most stable dog I've ever owned.

Fact is he was nucking futs.

VERY well trained to obey my instant command be that a recall, "quit that", any order I gave him.

When I did natural earth work with him he was one of a very small handful of dogs that could be called out of the hole in the middle of baying his quarry.

The problems was he was intolerant of most any other dog so I new that I was going to spend his whole life "managing " his situation.

As a pup he showed great promise as a racing terrier but his intolerance with any dog that bumped him in a race cause me to retire him from racing.

No way to "train" that out of him so I "managed" the situation by no longer racing

It wasn't a training issue. It was a "management" issue.

Even off lead he could be with 4-5 loose terriers on a hunt yet I knew he could never be trained with ANY method to be trustworthy without me being right there to "manage" any situation.

Cathy, there exist any boot camps here. It would be a good idea, but all you can find here within reach are some "trainers" who are idiots as far as it concerns dog training. We had one in the beginning for 3 months, the one who is considered here as the best. But he was even a greater fool than I as a complete beginner.

My dogs are meanwhile quite well trained, They do have quite a good obedience. I will now not list all their obedience skills. Just one: They don't enter the house, although the doors are mostly open, there is an invisible barrier for them. I by the way don't work just with rewards, I do use punishment. With this I mean verbal and physical corrections (physical: with the leash, no beating).

I have no considerable problems with the other 3, Though I have of course to work on various things, which are still lacking or not good enough. My dogs and I are still learning, I don't have the experience like many of you guys. The big problem is Slippie, not with obedience in general, there she is as good as the others, but with her aggression. In such moments she is completely overwhelmed, unable to control this. And I of course am overwhelmed with this too.

Thanks for your offer about the trainers. But I cannot travel to USA with her. First because I don't have the money, second because I would have to leave the other dogs back.Though if one of them gives online courses, I'd certainly be interested.

Candi, thanks for your suggestion. I do kennel-rotate my dogs now since the last attack. Kelly, you and Bob have convinced me. I for heaven's sake don't want to run any risks again. As these aggressive moments are so unpredictable I see no other secure way, except when I have her on the leash, because then she has my full attention and no reason to be jealous. Charlie then will not be accessible for her, although even if he were, in that situation she wouldn't attack him.

"Curing" and "managing" any situation is only as good as the ability to control that situation. I agree fully, Bob. That's why I'm managing now the way I just described above. These are for me the only ways to keep Slippie under control.
Thanks for the story about your JRT. Great to read and great that you could manage him by leaving the racing away.

Slippie's situation is different. She obeys my orders, the recall (within the Yard) is good, also the Leave it , the stays and other orders, but not in moments when she looses self-control. This I can unfortunately only control with separating her from the others.

Thank you all so much for your advices!

 Quote: Christina Stockinger

Cathy, there exist any boot camps here. It would be a good idea, but all you can find here within reach are some "trainers" who are idiots as far as it concerns dog training. We had one in the beginning for 3 months, the one who is considered here as the best. But he was even a greater fool than I as a complete beginner.

My dogs are meanwhile quite well trained, They do have quite a good obedience. I will now not list all their obedience skills. Just one: They don't enter the house, although the doors are mostly open, there is an invisible barrier for them. I by the way don't work just with rewards, I do use punishment. With this I mean verbal and physical corrections (physical: with the leash, no beating).

I have no considerable problems with the other 3, Though I have of course to work on various things, which are still lacking or not good enough. My dogs and I are still learning, I don't have the experience like many of you guys. The big problem is Slippie, not with obedience in general, there she is as good as the others, but with her aggression. In such moments she is completely overwhelmed, unable to control this. And I of course am overwhelmed with this too.

Thanks for your offer about the trainers. But I cannot travel to USA with her. First because I don't have the money, second because I would have to leave the other dogs back.Though if one of them gives online courses, I'd certainly be interested.

Candi, thanks for your suggestion. I do kennel-rotate my dogs now since the last attack. Kelly, you and Bob have convinced me. I for heaven's sake don't want to run any risks again. As these aggressive moments are so unpredictable I see no other secure way, except when I have her on the leash, because then she has my full attention and no reason to be jealous. Charlie then will not be accessible for her, although even if he were, in that situation she wouldn't attack him.

"Curing" and "managing" any situation is only as good as the ability to control that situation. I agree fully, Bob. That's why I'm managing now the way I just described above. These are for me the only ways to keep Slippie under control.
Thanks for the story about your JRT. Great to read and great that you could manage him by leaving the racing away.

Slippie's situation is different. She obeys my orders, the recall (within the Yard) is good, also the Leave it , the stays and other orders, but not in moments when she looses self-control. This I can unfortunately only control with separating her from the others.

Thank you all so much for your advices!

Christina, here is what I think Cathy means by "boot-camp"...

http://leerburg.com/groundwork.htm

You do it at HOME

Oh God! My English! And the lacking or false translations in some dictionaries.

Thanks so much, Candi, for your help! Now I think I understood. I read Ed's article, which is really illuminating. Thanks to you all I've changed a lot in between already. Nevertheless I'll read this article again and again. I know, I have to achieve a better leadership for Slippie. well, I guess for all 4. I have to make rules cristal clear for them. This I have taped in my skull.

I also already had the vid from Ed!!!! Damned, I didn't remember! I have a whole library of vids, which I bought in an attack of enthusiasm when I discovered LB, But then it was too much to watch them all various times. At least I have ressources. It's "only" a question of using the more important ones first.

 Quote: Christina Stockinger

Oh God! My English! And the lacking or false translations in some dictionaries.

Thanks so much, Candi, for your help! Now I think I understood. I read Ed's article, which is really illuminating. Thanks to you all I've changed a lot in between already. Nevertheless I'll read this article again and again. I know, I have to achieve a better leadership for Slippie. well, I guess for all 4. I have to make rules cristal clear for them. This I have taped in my skull.

I also already had the vid from Ed!!!! Damned, I didn't remember! I have a whole library of vids, which I bought in an attack of enthusiasm when I discovered LB, But then it was too much to watch them all various times. At least I have ressources. It's "only" a question of using the more important ones first.

You will be reading & watching with "new eyes" now, Christina -- Ground Work / Boot Camp is a painless way to re-emphasize your leadership position from a dog's perspective ... It will NOT "cure" dog-aggression, but it will elevate your status level on the spectrum of K9 respect, and should help with your Management skills

 Quote: Candi Campbell

 Quote: Christina Stockinger

Oh God! My English! And the lacking or false translations in some dictionaries.

Thanks so much, Candi, for your help! Now I think I understood. I read Ed's article, which is really illuminating. Thanks to you all I've changed a lot in between already. Nevertheless I'll read this article again and again. I know, I have to achieve a better leadership for Slippie. well, I guess for all 4. I have to make rules cristal clear for them. This I have taped in my skull.

I also already had the vid from Ed!!!! Damned, I didn't remember! I have a whole library of vids, which I bought in an attack of enthusiasm when I discovered LB, But then it was too much to watch them all various times. At least I have ressources. It's "only" a question of using the more important ones first.

You will be reading & watching with "new eyes" now, Christina -- Ground Work / Boot Camp is a painless way to re-emphasize your leadership position from a dog's perspective ... It will NOT "cure" dog-aggression, but it will elevate your status level on the spectrum of K9 respect, and should help with your Management skills

Well said Candi!

Absolutely! I have already started and see a difference in the behavior of the dogs. It is clear now, it will not cure aggression. I without doubt will have to elevate my status and will have to go on with this for ever very consistently.
Thanks Candi, great help!