1. No Creatine is not Speed or Steriods.
2. BUT if it causes anxiety like these drugs mentioned and there are rumors of it, I've felt it myself.

Therefore my point is, it could possibly over time cause a dog to become nervous if a dog felt those effects.
That could result into a dog becoming vicious. That's not a fact but it could happen.

I don't think it causes anxiety since it's mainly a natural fuel that is in the muscles. But you never know you could be right. Anything can cause anything given enough time and research. I can't think of any reason to give it to a dog anyway. Unless someone wants it to bulk up to attract the ladies.

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It's not scientific but I ussually get sick (cold or Flue) and feel like Shi* and discontinue it.

That most certainly is "scientific". It's part of the stress reaction. Anybody who's been into training for a while can certainly empathize.

Stress, in every form, (including/especially exercise) sets in motion, amongst other things, the release of glucorticoids. These are hormones sucreted from the cortex of the adrenals whose function is to supply the body with instant usable blood sugar. It just so happens that proteins are a relativly simple molecules to catabolize into glucose (fat is much more complex). So, with manageable bouts of stress, or protein catabolization is confined to a proteins resevoirs in the thymus and lymph glands. Stress is relieved, nutrition is ample, and the process can be repeated. No problem. When stress is prolonged, cortisone bleeds into our other body systems comprised of protein (like..all of them). It eats away at our immune system mechanisms and of course or muscle tissue et al.

I presume the sensations caused by creatine, in humans, perhaps gives the impression that one is capable of longer, more intense, perhaps even more frequent work-out sessions. I'd also presume that a dog owner might presume the same applies to his dog.

No.

It's not an anabolic. Even if it were (which it's not), it would still be confined to altering muscular recovery...not neccesarily *system* recovery. I can see creatine accomodating more intense workouts (which is generally a good thing), but I don't think it does anything in the way of ratcheting up one's anabolism for the purpose of enabling more *frequent* workouts. Dat's what dem hormones en horse nuts are fir.

So Brad, I think you're probably giving creatine too much credit as having nervous system implications, whereas I'd confine my concerns to the fact that doggy doesn't know (nor can he account for) precautionary steps he might have to take with a concentrated supplement.

Feelings of aggressive energy are rooted in a variety of subjective elements as it pertains to humans (especially us guys). Physical energy (the capacity for greater metabolic work) in and of itself is another thing. The dog doesn't associate greater physical ability with a greater ability to kick some guy's butt. That's purely temperment, is it not? So if you can map out the chemical conduit between the "conscious" dog brain and its muscular ATP, then we might be on to something. But I'll give you a clue. There isn't one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> At least, not in humans.

Of course, I don't claime to be able to account for the peculiarties of the canine metabolism, and whatever secondary/tertiary unforeseen behaviorial implications there might be.

I'd still refrain from it though...for reasons already mentioned.

Then again, Micheal's dog is already on it.

So, Micheal? Regarding behavioral implications, any roid raging?

Originally posted by Steven Lepic:
Then again, Micheal's dog is already on it.

So, Micheal? Regarding behavioral implications, any roid raging? Thank you all for your replies. Um, no to your question. There is no change in his temperment, just a leaner body, but the thing I have noticed the most is that they work for longer periods of time without getting tired as quickly. I would not say they come out bouncing off the walls, they are normal, but just sustain a certain energy level longer?

I know of a few people that use peak perfromance which has creatine in it if I am correct with similar results.

What is the increase in performance? A few percentages? What is that going to do?

A well conditioned dog shouldn't even break a sweat, so to speak, in a Schutzhund competition. Shouldn't break a sweat taking down a bad guy. . .is the minute amount of increased performance worth the cost, the possible side effects, and the hassle?

I don't think so, but that's just me. Get a dog tread mill, you'll use it for a lifetime and the effects are safe. A dog at peak health is a holy terror and we surely don't tap into most of that ability or stamina in our funny little dogsports.

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I would not say they come out bouncing off the walls, they are normal, but just sustain a certain energy level longer

That's what I woulda predicted. So despite his new found strength and stamina, you're telling me he hasn't started picking fights, or applying for any other immediatly accessible jobs of faux-authority (which he intends to abuse)? No talk of, perhaps, becoming a bouncer? No new tattooes on his growing biceps? That's good, that's good. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

1. Steve you are out of line with those comments.
2. Example Caffenine is nothing like Steriods or anything along the lines of an engergy boost described, but giving that to a dog and .

-type error-
You give anything that could stimulate a dog in a non natural way and it could cause a problem. IMO

I apologize.

Michael's dog is allegedly doing alright. No apparent temperement changes, no appreciable desire to be more active or aggressive, and allegedly has less resistant to physical fatigue.

That's what one would expect from such a substance. Were this even in the same league as a CNS stimulant, one would expect to see the opposite, that is, increased activity, but no appreciable (nor sustainable) objective increase in the ability to do so. The *desire* to run around like a maniac indicates nothing about the *ability* to run around like a maniac. It's an important difference.

I get your "anything-can-happen" point. But what are the odds? What's the anecdotal evidence suggest? Micheal's situation seems pretty benign so far.

In light of Van Camp's observations about the practical need for such a physical edge, the cost of supplementation, and the worrisome hydration implications, I would also opt not to bother using it.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the reasons for agreement.