Chris,
Most of us here said that the table can be used for OB with no harm to the dog. It's a common tool for retrieving training.
But table training for protection is a tool for weak trainers, or trainers that just don't care.
**** Will, That's been understood. I'm just giving my point of view like anyone else that participates in a discussion board. Even in obedience a dog's temperament can be harmed PERMANENTLY by weak trainers. There is a trainer that is well respected by many people on this board that has used 100 on continous for a remote collar retrieve. Does that not fall into "sh#t training"? OR the ecollar can be used in a way that is very benificial way to help the dog focus on one task.
You're totally missing the point with the comparison that you used. When a dog is tied by it's collar to a pole on a table, it has *NO* choice.
***You're missing MY point which is: It's not the tool, it is what the trainer does with the tool that makes the difference.
Comparing that to the OB exercise in which groomers train dogs to stay on a table is just silly. The dog with slack has a choice and learns not to step off the table.
****Sometimes not giving a choice is in the animal's best interest. Do you leave your 1 year old kid wandering by the street? Again, it's about the trainer, not the tool. What's "silly" is someone not realizing that. Where constantly reinforcing that argument with many negative purposed tools in dog training (like the prong, ecollar, leash, etc..) but we have this huge hang up about the table because some people have only seen it used in a horrendous way.
.
The dog that is *trapped* and has to fight (in it's opinion ) to save it's own life is a very different thing all together.
**** When a dog is on the pole, it's trapped. Handler's will hold their dogs and let them get flanked or whipped by helpers and all that crap to evoke defense. Same thing.
If a dog needs to be tabled to bring out "defense", the dog is usually either a) too young to actually work in defensive drive, but the owner and trainer are either in a hurry or just stupid, or b) the dog is weak and not really a candidate for protection training, but the owner and trainer are going to force the dog into a situation that's bad for the dog because the owner and trainer are inexperienced, lazy , or stupid. Or all three.
*** You don't need a table set up to see all that crap.
I have *never* seen a dog that "needed" table training amount to anything. It's a cheap tool, and trainers that swear by shouldn't be training dogs. Period.
*** Very well. It's your opinion and I respect it. I know people that would never use the ecollar but still see the benefits.