Originally posted by Todd E. Gaster:
Don't know about you, but sounds like a pet to me! Bingo! now you are getting it. Here in the U.S. we left all the dogs behind. Great faith they had in the jungle.But no judgement their by you Todd. I don't know how many dogs were or are used with explosives strapped to them, but i'm sure its 1/100 of a percent less then the dogs left behind. What is the number of the nam animal shelter?

Milt,
Your posts are very true in fact Israel has a very high regard for its military dogs of all types and its also worth noting that their SAR Dog units are also part of the Special Forces.
This was an isolated incident and is not the norm but I would suspect that they had more than a good reason for their actions.
Military and Police dogs are not as you say pets and should never be treated as such.
Paul

Just one point on this subject the web site that Milt put up is not an official site,the official site is part of the IDF main site and gives very little information.http://www.idf.il/english/organization/homefront/search.stm
Paul

But no judgement their by you Todd. I don't know how many dogs were or are used with explosives strapped to them, but i'm sure its 1/100 of a percent less then the dogs left behind. What is the number of the nam animal shelter? We are talking about explosives not leaving dogs behind. Heck lets talk about all the atrocities that have ever been in the world of dogs and pass judgement on them too while we are at it.

My simple statement as from the beginning: I don't believe in strapping explosives to a dog for any reason!

The US Military did NOT make it a practice to strap explosives on a dogs back and detonate same. Was the idea thought of, certainly, were dogs trained to do that, I do know feasability studies were done, but there was not a sanctioned training of dogs for that purpose. By the way, feasibility studies were conducted on other animals as well for such things as target acquisition etc. The contributions dogs have made during wartime are legendary, and as with all legends sometimes grow as the years wear on. The one fact remains, trained dogs were responsible for saving many lives. Were dogs killed during thier deployments, absolutely. Many dogs were left behind when we left Viet Nam. That decision however was not entirely based on cost effectiveness. During my 23 years as a military handler, trainer, instructor and superintendant of that school I witnessed many times the snobbery of private and police dog trainers over techniques used, how dogs were trained and how dogs were assigned, reassigned and destroyed when no longer a viable asset. The fact is there were and still are literally thousands of dedicated dog handlers, that even though they may only handle that dog for 2, 3, maybe even 5 years, they were as attached and took the same care of that animal as any police dog handler does today. I've been with the State Police now for the past 13 years now. I've watched dogs chase felons, search buildings, and have seen them killed, but ladies and gentlemen, let there be no mistake, until you've been behind a dog, going through a jungle, concerned about land mines, trip wires, an armed opposing force, mortor attacks, rocket attacks, but the dog is still leading the way, don't criticize how the military trains and deploys thier animals. I've been shot at in the military and I've been shot at during my career in law enforement, and while dead is dead, with very few exeptions, law enforement is not the same as all out combat. The miltary dog handlers are proud of thier accomplishments, they've earned thier stripes as professional handlers, and some have moved on to being professional trainers of the highest caliber. Most of the federal organizations that use dogs were started with retired military working dog trainers. Many of the trainers today recieved a lot of their experience in the military. while many may hold the military method of training in lower esteem than thier private or police training colleges, the contributions of the military working dog program can never be ignored

DFrost

Theres been several issues raised here. As Paul observes I dont think the suicide dogs were particularly succesfull whatever the ethics involved.
The comments about the Israelis having the guts to put the explosives there themselves are emotive, irational crap. There has never been any lack of courage in the IDF, thats why they have defeated the arabs in every battle.
Suicide is a anathema to Jews.
Animal life is subsvervient to human. That dosent mean that they should be made to suffer, far from it. Our postion of 'power' over them means we bare a enormous responsibility for their welfare.
If you look at the british army ceremonial cavalry regiments youll see a trooper bringing up the rear carrying a large type of pike. It was his job at the end of a battle to go about and destroy all the injured horses by stabbing them with this pike. Animals have always been killed in warfare. That dosent mean its right of course but as long as human lives are being lost it is naive to think that countries will baulk at expending animals.

SEMPER FI

DFROST
Thanks for explaining a very difficult subject.
Well said. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks,

DFrost,s reply to this subject is very true and we should all be proud of what the military and police dog handlers do,unless you have been there and done it,you cannot compare either to anything one will experience in a civilian situation.
The stakes are very different when the bullits start flying.
Paul

No joke, this thread is stupid.