Ed is absolutely correct. I import dogs for various endeavors BUT my husband goes overseas(I do not "do" airplanes <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) and evaluates them or we send our friend who is also an officer/trainer. They spend many many days over there testing and washing out dogs in order to purchase a handful that are what we want. This is true for working dogs as well as breeding stock and show line dogs. If one goes over themselves with US $ there are some nice dogs to be had,but you will burn some gas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Let's face it, Americans are money machines. You don't have to look at Europe to prove it. Look at the amount of poor dogs sold here. The more popular the breed the moore crap there is. On top of which for the protection breeds, most people breeding see the working temprament as a liability. To make matters worse, many people buying a dog buy it for it's looks or they think they want a guard dog. They have no idea what they are getting into with a working temperment dog. They are going to just freak when that dog presents it's first challenge.

To a large extent breeders bear a large responsibility here. Not everybody is suitable for a working temperament dog. Most people can't handle the dog and are not willing to put the required work into training the dog, and that excludes any form of protection training. Since a lot of breeders are in it for the money, either as a hobby or a buisness, they don't check out potential owners. Many have decided to soften the temperament to make the puppies more marketable.

The chacteristics of the breeds change to the point that it is no longer a single breed. Tempermant is a prime example, look at the difference in a working dog vs what is sold as a pet. In GSD the physical structure of the dog has been changed too. Most of the working breeds have seen this temperament change, look at the Doberman. It is sad.

It isn't just the working breeds either, look at the sporting breeds. There are lots of retrievers bred every year that couldn't retrieve to save their life. Pointers, at one point people were crossing Irish Setters with English's and Gordon's to get them to hunt again.

The working side is often not much better. I have learned not to comment on a dog's breed for fear of getting it wrong. I have seen some registered Lab's that look nothing like a Lab! There is getting to be less and less consistancy in the appearance or temperament in breeds. GSD males from 50-140 pounds, same with some Rott's. The dog in no way conforms to the breed standard, but is bred because it works.

The situation is a crime for the dogs. If all four feet don't point the same way the dog shouldn't be bred. Everyboy has born responsibility in this situation. If working people would at least have their dogs established as a good representative of the breed before breeding, our working stock would improve. The standards were descriptions of dogs as they were found when they were working. Changing the physical chacteristics of the breed raises potential problems including injury to the dog if it is working.

It also raises other questions in my mind. If the breeder isn't interested enough in the breed to breed for some level of appearance, what is the likelihood that the dog has an iffy temperament?

I know working people hate to hear this, but I show my dogs if I intend to breed them. I can hear the howls now, but here is my point breeding should be done to improve the breed. Improving the breed includes the temperament, working ability, and appearance. The way conformation shows are run now is not the only way that it could be done. In cats you can get a championship in one show. What it baisicly means is that the animal is of show, and breeding, quality. The Champions then compete for a Grand Championship. There is a rare breed dog organization starting to do the same thing. In order to gain a Grand Championship working breeds must pass a temperament test. That's right, they have to demonstrate they can work.

OK, I'll get off my soap box now.

AMEN TO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Let's face it. It comes down to dollars and cents, and a thought process that all things imported must be better. I agree that the dealers over there are shit. I have not gotten screwed myself, but I known someone that got the shaft from the same person about every 3rd dog he got. It is just the way some people are. It happens over here to though so don't be fooled, but it seems alot of this comes from Germans. The answer from them is "I not know what happen, maybe use guys not know how to raise puppy. It is time use learn" or "send him back, I have him in World Cup next years" The dog goes back, because he is crap, and never to be heard of again, to get another piece of crap dog in place of him. I don't believe that there are alot of people that buy from Germany, and have to stop becasue they start gettin screwed.
At the end of the day , we just cannot compete with the ecnomics over here in the states on a large scale. Quality yes but Economics no. It seems to be that simple. When you need a young prospect it is cheaper as a general rule to buy from Europe, or is though?

Australia exports a lot of stock dogs to the states, mainly kelpies, I see a lot of ads in Western Horseman for dogs with australian blood like it was some kind of holy grail.

I know a guy who sent a queensland heeler to a guy in L.A. soley because the bitch it was out of hated black people, he got about 5 times what he would of got for it in Australia.

Fact is you good buy a very good working kelpie pup here for $300 US. Farmers simply wont pay more for them. But if some American comes along with cash to burn plenty of breeders will take it. You guys forget what a wealthy society you come from compared to the rest of the world. A lot of Europeans resent your affulence, world domination, the Macdonalds down the street, coca cola etc etc. Of course theyld expect you to defend them if the Russians ever attacked them though. So if they get the chance to stick it to you theyd probabaly take it and then laugh about it latter with their sons of war criminals friends.

If I had to come to australia to buy a working kelpie Id contact local breeders find one whom you click with and go from there. I guess in Europe its harder cause you have the language/cultural barrier to contend with.

As for the germans dont forget these are the poeple who murder millions of unarmed people for no other reason than their different culture. Yeah theyre all apologetic now, thats because they lost the war, if it wasnt for that for sure there would be a lot more working german shepherds in the US but theyd be in the hands of the Wehrmacht and SS. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Dear Brendon (diplomat?)

By flaming the modern day germans for events that happened more than 50 years ago you are
exhibiting the exact same attitude that spurred off the Holocaust in the first place.
My cousin is german and happily married to a
jewish girl.
Please let sleeping dogs lie. Especially if
those sleeping dogs happen to be german shepherds.

The major, major problem with US breeders goes to one thing, the lack of TRUE breeders. What I mean by this is, the US market is import driven. People what a pup from two imports. Or they wan't an import dog. Very few breeders get their best pups, then keep them, train and evaluate them and selectivly breed on. True breeders breed their best dogs to their best dogs improving every generation. Here in Australia because we have such tough quarentine restrictions it is VERY expensive to import a dog. I have bought two pups from Czech lines and they cost over $6000 US to my doorstep EACH. We have little choise but to breed on with our dogs. This has made us into better breeders. For example there is a working dobermann breeder who breeds under the Schutzdobe kennel prefix who has bred for over 10 years from his German import stock and his dobermanns are as hard, civil, strong drives and nerves than you will find anywhere in Europe today. This is what is lacking in breeders in the US. After all this is what the Europeans are doing, breeding THEIR best dogs to THEIR best dogs. TRUE BREEDING

I dont give a shit who who your cousin is married to married to cannis lupus. You've got your head up your arse if you think the damage the germans did to the world is a 'sleeping dog'. I know plenty of people who spent time in concentration camps and still bear the psych scars, they hear the dogs barking in their nightmares evertime they go to sleep. This had nothing to do with dogs so I wont write more. Damn south african we all know about your countries human rights record, piss off. Latter for the germans and their dogs and cars buy American and bring honour to the names of the people who gave their lives so we could be free .

This is a list for talking about dogs but it seems now to have gone to politics,I can understand Brendans attitude as how can you ever forgive a nation for what happened even 50 years ago,as for South Africa at least under the old regime you had law and order and proper police dogs,so what was really best.

Um... I think most of us agree that keeping an entire people enslaved is much more morally repugnant than not having "law and order" and "good police dogs" (hope your tongue was in your cheek there, Paul).

And I don't like to put on my jingoistic hat, but... you hear so many non-Yanks bashing us Yanks these days that it's nice to see someone who still remembers WWII and what that war was really all about. Your comments are appreciated, Brendan. And I'm with you 100% on the issue of human rights.

Pete Felknor