Laren,

Yes, in basic handling classes a majority of the class is devoted to teaching the handler to function properly. In most cases the dog will pick it up fairly quickly along with the handler. The best dogs will do it fairly naturally any way, you just need to show them what is expected, much like any training. Some dogs take more work than others. To dismiss this training as unnecessary or non-existant is to overlook it's importance. Before you make comments that any dog can do it, maybe you should try to handle in some pointed shows? To dimiss it as unimportant isn't really a service to the breeds anymore than to dissmiss the importance of other training.

Uh oh...is this another conformation debate???

My question is this, if that is the winning bitch, why doesn't she have any pics posted from the show? Why were the pics taken in some dumpy looking building? This is bull if you ask me.

I have debated about posting in this thread for a few days now... it's a good ole fashion AMR vr GER dog debate hahah I read that article and amazed at the hatred between the two versions. I think it boils down to this.

Some German's breed crap dogs.
Some American's breed crap dogs.

But they are bred for diffrent things and who the hell cares who's is better, the real question is, are you happy with the dog you choose for the reason you choose it? There are always going to be crappy breeders in every country.

If you get jacked at a show like she did, OH WELL, it's not like there won't be another one...

Same kinda stuff happens at SCh trials as well, we have all seen it.... and who cares? Did we have fun anyway? I know I did, I saw great dogs and I saw crap dogs...

I know people laugh at me with my Show Line pup think I care? Hell no.. I know he will do great at trial. Even if he don't I will still have a great time! I'm certinaly not going to waste my time getting all flustered and start blaming everyone else.. for my poor decision.

Richard, I said that the majority of the training was for the handler, but I never said it was all handler training. However, I do feel strongly that any good pet (esp the labbie type happy go lucky dogs) can be trained to trot around the ring with the handler.

I was hoping to enter a few pointed shows this summer for fun. I'm not too hot on the idea of giving the ACK any money, so I might just do match shows and visit a pointed show.

Have any tips for handling in pointed shows? It sounds like you've handled in a few.

My whole problem with this article is the emphasis on looks. Max wanted the GSD to work. These American bred dogs can barley walk let alone do any work if they wanted too. The American GSD (an oxymoron if you ask me) has had all the best qualities of what Max intended bred out of them. They wouldn't protect themselves let alone someone else. They couldn't herd even if they had the drive because their form does not follow function. I highly doubt the dog shown as the winner was even in the show. It was probably a picture taken as an example of what a cow hocked dog looked like. I have yet to see a German dog- show or working look like that. Personally I like the look of a strong working line dog but even more I like a dog that can actually do the work despite their looks. To me looks are secondary to workability.

VanCamp thanks for not disappointing me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Laren,

It is the Stand/Stay in the proper position that is the primary issue. The other thing is the stop from motion into the proper stance. The movement is fairly easy, as the dog should gait properly naturaly. In a large class like the GSD, Rott, or Dobe ring the dog may be expected to maintain that position for a fairly long time. You can move them around some but not much. The dog must be comfortable and not appear nervous in the position and be able to stay in the position so that the judge doesn't interpret motion as an unsound temperament.

Most any dog can be trained for most things fairly easily.

And no, I don't handle. I have had severl dogs shown to Championships, but I don't handle them. I do get them ready for the ring. I haire a profesional handler that does it for a living to do the handling. I don't like doing the actual handleing in the ring and that would show. Plus since I also do the obedience and protection training, I prefer to have someone else do the handling so the dog isn't confused as to what it is supposed to be doing. There are also other cues I use for my dogs. We use different baits for the ring and obedience, and different leashes and collars for obedience, protection and conformation. The dog know what it is supposed to be doing based on the equipment that is in use at the time. That does change at the end of protection training when the harness or wide collar is no longer used.

You mean stacking them like this?

http://www.tarheelweb.com/auster/puppies/a/day25pink.jpg

Sorry, couldn't resist <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .

Absolutely, now just do it with a 2 year old for half an hour and you got it. Oh yeah, have her go perfectly in to that stance from a jog. It should be absolutly no problem at all. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Nice post, lets see that one again. . .

Karmen Wrote:"My whole problem with this article is the emphasis on looks. Max wanted the GSD to work. These American bred dogs can barley walk let alone do any work if they wanted too. The American GSD (an oxymoron if you ask me) has had all the best qualities of what Max intended bred out of them. They wouldn't protect themselves let alone someone else. They couldn't herd even if they had the drive because their form does not follow function. I highly doubt the dog shown as the winner was even in the show. It was probably a picture taken as an example of what a cow hocked dog looked like. I have yet to see a German dog- show or working look like that. Personally I like the look of a strong working line dog but even more I like a dog that can actually do the work despite their looks. To me looks are secondary to workability. "

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Me? Disappoint?