Lee Hough, I liked your website, your black bitch is gorgeous! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Just was wondering if any of those websites Stefanie posted, she was actually familiar with the dogs or if the websites just looked attractive?

If you really wanna see what happens when a dog line splits into show and "other"/working lines, go call an American Staffordshire a APBT in fron tof their owner, and hold on to your a** cuz you will get an ear full.

There is perhaps no greater application of the AKC ruining a breed as that one. THere is almost no game in the AmStaff at all any more and the head size has gotten way out of hand and the chest split is enormous on some of the "show quality" staffies out there...Not one of those dogs could be considered to do the job a APBT or Bull and Terrier or Half and Half or whatever you want to call them could or wants to do...Thank God the AKC hasn't recognized the APBT and there are still good lines out there....

A great example of no one clamoring to get them into the AKC is the AMerican Bulldog..>There are enough crappy owners breeding the good stuff out of them without the AKC being involved and I would cahallenge any conformation mastiff type of any kind to a day of hog catching or weight pulling with a good AmBull or APBT...Won't happen...

I love dogs (most of them anyway) but agree that their breed was supposed to be for a specific purpose, and if they want something pretty to look at that can do nothing that it was designed to do as a dog, get a pug or Lhasa Apso or something like that...Just keep them away from my APBT's cuz they'll start to think its ok to be a slacker prom queen dog...LOL

Originally posted by Robynne Thompson:
Just was wondering if any of those websites Stefanie posted, she was actually familiar with the dogs or if the websites just looked attractive? Well Robynne Thompson to answer you question I am actually familiar with these dogs! I have been involved with German Shepherds since I was a child and I know that doesn't nesecerly mean anything, but I know my stuff and that I am confident about. I am not some airhead person rambling on about something I don't know, the American showline is pathetic and it is a disgrace to the german shepherd, but that doesn't mean that it is like that all over the world. my favorite breeder however does not have a website, but i thought that it would be of interest to someone to veiw the other 3 kennels that I know. Wiesental for example has produced many good dogs in south africa and Wolfgang and his wife samantha have a lot of knowledge regarding the gsd and Wolfgang himself is a good trainer and assailent, I have learned a lot from him. And Ferrenbach kennels is a kennel that strives for a dog that can stand in the showring and have a SchH qualification. There are also a numnber of good kennels in Nederland and in France, and a number of good Doberman, Malino and Rottweiler kennels here in Belgium.
Have a nice day!

Been ages since I've been on the post. I have always been around showline Gsd's from Germanbloodlines and I thought that they were great and they are in their own way. I didn't know any better, I learned bitework on these dogs and I thought this is it! Well, a few months ago I joined a new club and oh my gosh, full of workingline gsd's <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> But after a few months of working these dogs my eyes have been opened very wide! A good workingline cannot touch the showline, and now the funniest part is that I am getting a workingline gsd, isn't that great <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I had to do some homework on the workinglines since I didn't know squat <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The moreel of this is that I want to oppologise for any previous ignorance, I'm still young and learning (that's my excuse). I'm not bashing the german showlines either, there are some good dogs out there, but there still a big difference btw show & worklines, and I just never saw it before.

Some people want a pet and people who want pets want a cool looking dog that mopes around the house being lazy all day. If people stopped wanting GSD's as pets there'd be less bad breeding and less weak nerved dogs out there. Unfortunately, pet owners don't think "well I don't want a german shepherd because it encourages bad profitable breeding", they think "hey I want a german shepherd because rin tin tin was a shepherd n they're police dogs n will scare people away". Until you educate and convince every pet owner in the world, the split of working/showline dogs is gonna stay that way, fortunately german showline dogs still require some working ability, and I have no doubt that many of them can work.... but perhaps not as intensely as a hardcore working line dog. If everyone went out and got working line dogs as a pet, then there'd be 10x more GSD's in shelters because people would freak out with those kinda drives, because it's inevitable that high drive dogs are gonna end up in unsuitable homes when breeders who currently breed crap start breeding good working dogs and selling em to the same people who they would have sold crap to.

More people should focus on breeding working line dogs, but I think there is a balance too... imagine if the american line shepherd didn't exist... it'd happen all over again, people would want a german shepherd, the only way to get one is from import lines... thus the import lines YET AGAIN turn into crap, because thats where american lines came from to begin with... and then we get the american line shepherd all over again. No matter which way you turn it, without imposing LAWS as to who can own which dog and mandatory training for good dogs and neutering for pet dogs, you're never gonna make every dog of a breed worthy of work.

That said, I have a showline dog that works just fine... if he was a working line dog his training would have gone alot smoother quicker and have more intensity... he can work... he just doesn't work as well as a champion ringsport dog from working lines... but if someone busts into the house, he's not gonna run and hide in a corner waiting for it to be over.

When you say "he can work", do you mean he can do sport work and would bark at me really mean if I busted in. . .or do you honestly think he would FIGHT me if I tried to achieve some evil on yo azz? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"but if someone busts into the house, he's not gonna run and hide in a corner waiting for it to be over."


No, he probably won't hide in a corner ( although you might be surprised by his behavior during an actual attack, most owners are <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> )...he'll probably bark and he might put on a good show. But in the face of a determined attacker, his genetics are not favorable for a good outcome, like 99.8% of the dogs in this country.

That's not to pick on you or your dog, Mike - it's just the truth of the metter. If you ask the average owner of a Yorkshire Terrier, he will be just as convinced that his dog will protect him.
< shrug >