I was wondering the same thing... was suprized to not see grim on Van De Camp's list <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />among others...

Just giving you chit Vancamp... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

also, how about a couple of these....

Igor van den Herdgang
Dorle vom Lundsholz
Lord & Lanzo van Tiekerhook
Sagus vom Busecker Schloss
Faust vom Busecker Schloss
Eros vom Busecker Schloss
Bernd Lierberg
Bodo Lierberg
Arx Neffetal
Verwin Blitsaerd
Robby Glockeneck
Falko Haus Sindern
Boa Haus Larwin
Gimmy Haus Larwin
Gento Haus Larwin
Quitte Karthago
Satan Park Ring
Pia-Akbar
Perle-Akbar
Arek Stoffelblick
Wanko vd Maaraue

should I go on??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Bodo already mentioned, too late Mike. Do you know what year he won the Sieger?

Todd, add a little known dog named Ben z Bolfu and I'll start thinking Czech. (sire of perhapse the greatest Czech dog of all time, not Grim either. He he he)

Julie, I started with the very early progenetors of the GSD breed (Roland v. Starkenburg, Hektor von Schwaben, Beowulf v. Nahegau) and then mentioned some early BSP winners (Bleck v. Unteren Wallberg SchHIII, FH, PH), some "service owned" police winners (Falk v. Hitdorfer Land DH II, FH -owned by Northrhine, Westphalia Polizei), and some influential blood in the foundations of most of what we call working lines today (Utz v. Haus Schutting SchHIII PDH, Hattel Uckermark HGH, Klodo v. Boxberg SchHIII, Erich v. Grafenwerth PH, etc.).

If I had to pick just one it would be Horand Grafrath/Hector v. Linksrhein SZ-1 (same dog). I would like to see what Max saw in this dog. Same goes for a lot of these dogs, not to many people alive that can say what they were like so I'd like to see what people saw in them as well. End the "what Max intended" arguement once and for all. (like I don't already know the answer to that question :rolleyes: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )

 Quote:

Originally posted by VanCamp:
Bodo already mentioned, too late Mike. Do you know what year he won the Sieger?

You mean 1967 when he went VA1 but his brother went V3, and he was purchased for an outrageous sum and sent to the USA. While his brother, Bernd, stayed in Germany and produced BSP winners. Nah, I know nothing of the Lierbergs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

To follow up on Mike's addition of some fine females:

Steffi Tiekerhook
Byorka Tiekerhook
Bona Waldwinkel
Gibsy vd Alten Wassermuhle
Fatima z Pohranicni straze

John

Since I don't know squat about working dog lines (but I am trying to learn) how do dogs from 10,20,30 yrs ago compair to todays dogs and why? I realize this question is subject to personel opinion, but that's what it's all about.

I would also think that different training methods today could be a big factor in how a dog performs?

My dog "Blue" has some remarkable ancestors in his line
Dingo von Haus Gero Sieger 1984
Quanda v Arminius SchH3 FHIP3 V-A
rated VA5 in 1985 & Sieger VA1 in 1986 & 1987
Uran von Wildsteigerland Sieger 1984 & 1985
Exl vom Batu SchH3

Blue is now 4 years old and we've had him from a puppy. He is a superb dog in all respects - one of these you are lucky to live with once in a lifetime. He is lean, super fit if rather small but we like him the way he is

Something I forgot to add earlier. My vet once asked me what the definition of the best dog in the world is - the answer is simple - my dog!!!!

how do dogs from 10,20,30 yrs ago compair to todays dogs and why? I realize this question is subject to personel opinion, but that's what it's all about.

That is a simple question with an incredibly complex answer. But, in brief you see the same dogs winning the sieger who were also excellent working dogs. Many police dogs, some herd dogs, all good dogs. It all comes crashing down in the 1960s to the 1970s, starting here in the US and then in the SV. Conformation breeding, pet owning, politics, and ignorance sunders the lines into what we have today.