In the past couple of months I've seen a couple of service dogs at the mall with their handicapped/disabled handlers. In each case I was a little surprised to see the dogs wearing a prong.

I've also seen a couple of segments on some service dogs on Animal Planet. Again, I saw two seperate shows with each of the two dogs discussed wearing prong collars.

There are some who consider prongs to be a very bad thing. I guess they can be mis-used just like anything else. But my guess is that the people who oppose prongs have not worked with high drive dogs. People with fat, lazy dogs don't need a prong.

I recently was at an outdoor event/fundraiser for a local dog group. One of the sponsors was an AKC obedience certifier and dog "trainer". Her dog got away from her and she was yelling to people to grab her dog for her. Hmmm. By the way, my dog won the obedience competition. He received a baby blue ribbon with a French Poodle on it, despite the fact that he is a rather intimidating GSD. :rolleyes: Anyway, I've noticed that some of the people I've met who are critical of prongs are not able to do the same things with their dogs that I do with mine. For one, I'm not the least bit concerned about my dog being off-leash. He'll down at a distance immediately when so commanded. He'll always come. But then again, I've spent a lot of time working with him and taking him everywhere.

For some reason people who are against prongs view trainers and handlers who use them as not being a "positive" trainer. Nothing could be further from the truth. I think we train the same. The one difference is that when my dog used to defy or procrastinate on my commands, there was a negative consequence. He soon learned that defying me was not a good option. He also learned that complying was a great option.

I'd like to see a high-drive dog that is very well trained and which does not receive any sort of compulsion corrections. And then I'd want to see where the trainer has achieved this with more than one dog. Then maybe I'd throw away the prong. Until then, it works and in my humble experience it works best. But a novice handler must first be instructed on its use by someone who knows what they're doing. Otherwise it may create problems and then some trainer will say it's all because of the prong.

So, there's my 2-cents. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Scott,
I like your 2-cents worth of post. I too would like to see a high-drive dog of any breed trained without any compulsion. :rolleyes:
Very good post.

People that do not advocate the use of a prong really do not either understand dog training, or they have never really worked a powerful DOG and trained it, and therefore are not really trainers. The prong is the most usefull tool that I have ever used in training.

Yea? But what do you say to whale & dolphins trainers who correctly point out you can't put a prong on them?

Yea, but can you reliably walk down the street with a whale or dolphin and not worry about him bolting into the street? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Laureen
You asked if you had to wean off the prong. If you intend to compete, the prong is not allowed in the ring in AKC. I think that also goes for Schutzhund.
Crabtree
The video is AWESOME!

Thanks for the explanations - I was just curious. I don't do any competing with my dogs, and am not a trainer - they are strictly pets, and I mostly use flat collars with them.

I bought a prong for my neighbour to use on her rescue Siberian husky who is not that well trained and who PULLS like a freight train. She (my neighbour) is too soft to discipline or correct the dog. A "choke" collar did nothing. The prong however has made a REAL difference. He heels like a pro, doesn't pull hardly at all. It's also a lot safer for her to use the flexi as he has self-corrected at the limit of it's range and now knows how far he can go. (Once when he was on the flexi and a flat coller he charged down the front porch, the flexi flew out of her hand and he took off running. Luckily the flexi got tangled up on a utility pole)
For her it was the only option for her to have any sort of "walking" relationship with this dog (she just about had a heart attack when I brought it over though, now she loves it.)
I have even used one off and on on my rather soft standard poodle.
Although it looks like a Medieval torture device if more people used them you'd have some much happier dog owners.

Laureen
If your pets respond well, and are controllable on a flat collar, there is absolutely no reason to go to anything else. Most trainers will agree, if the dog responds at lower levels of correction,why go more.Most of the trainers on this board, train in very specific venues, with tough(not to be misunderstood as Mean) dogs. Even though most, not all, train with positive methods, the nature of the dogs requires a different level of control.

Laureen, I agree with OldE. I only used the prong when my dog had a "temporary brain dysfunction" especially during his teenage years. He was always very good on a flat coller (except for that time period) and now that's pretty much all I'll use. Once in a while I'll bring out his martingale slip chain (mainly for the sound the chain coller makes) when we're doing a charity walk. I would say 95% of the time he's on a flat coller.
Good for you and your dogs that you don't need a prong, but just because they're "pets" doesn't mean you don't have to use the tools to achieve peak performance.
Although I did not have the time to compete with my "pet" I am still a stickler for obedience and excellent leash manners (heeling). I would not tolerate pulling or lagging even in a "pet". Just one of my "pet" peeves. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I am lucky, only one of my 4 is a puller, I walk them together and the problem boy is a work in progress as far as on leash. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Off leash they have great recall. They're rescues, and just one of the 4 came impeccably trained, the others were more challenging.