I don't think there is anyone here who thinks all dogs need prongs. Just last night I walked my two GSD's through town without prongs or halti's or chokes. One had on a flat and the other a rolled. To say that they have no place in dog training though it is a bit naieve. Heck to be honest, I have more gadgets and gizmos in my training box than I will ever use on the same dog but there are times that you need something and don't have it that make you all the wiser.

Yep, I own a halti or two, and even a gentle leader(it was given to me by a friend who was closing a pet store) and I have even used the Halti! They do have uses, and can be employed for many different tasks.

There are just some dogs who you will need power steering on at some point. Be it a choke, halti, prong, or e collar. After training the dogs all can go back to a flat collar if the training is worth a hoot.

Anyway, we are WAY off topic.

And no offense, but Harley doesn't look lean in that photo. I see way too many fat GSD's.

Harley's bones all stick out Deanna - not a great shot - he is very deep in the chest but very scrawny. I have pals come by, GSD pals, who all comment on his scrawniness. His ribs can be seen at a distance, no need to feel them, you see them from a distance. Mind you he is much taller than the standard, but he is a rake, as he should be, he has a shattered hip.

Originally posted by Shepherdgirl- Deanna:
After training the dogs all can go back to a flat collar if the training is worth a hoot.

Anyway, we are WAY off topic.

And no offense, but Harley doesn't look lean in that photo. I see way too many fat GSD's. I get alot of flack on this, apparently most dogs are NOT on flat collars?

Sometimes the camera adds weight... it has always been my excuse <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It is hard to tell from a photo, I trust your judgement. I just see a lot of people with 125# gsd's that they claim are all muscle... :rolleyes:

During training you are part of a minority if you never go above a flat. If it is working for you and your dogs, GOOD! DO what works.

Maybe these are better shots Deanna?

http://www.homestead.com/floydandfamily/files/Harley_-_01_Dec_01_-__1.JPG

http://www.homestead.com/floydandfamily/files/Harley_-_01_Dec_01_-__2.JPG

http://www.homestead.com/floydandfamily/files/DSCF0015t.JPG

Given that I have 4 special needs GSDs, and 2 from the "scratch and dent" bins, with broken hips and squashed pelvises, you can assume I know the importance of weight. Harley is a scrawny boy with a barrel chest, regardless of what the photo shows. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You can see, never mind feel, his ribs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He is oversized and scrawny. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And a lovey boy.

Yes, I think it is safe to say they do. To what extent will vary on dog and handler and their comfort. If you are showing AKC you have to show with a flat collar, if you are doing SchH the dog has to be shown with a fur saver on the dead ring which basically functions as a flat collar. Some people will never work their dog without the prong except on trial day, some do, as I said it is as individual as the dog and handler.

My male uses the prong till we get to the feild because he will drag me out there, but once we are on the field the collar is switched and the leash is dropped. He isn't going anywhere cuz he wants what I have. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I take back the comment about Harley's weight! He just didn't have much of a tuck up from the side, but from above I can definately see he isn't carrying any extra groceries around.

One of my kids is "slightly used" and the other is a temp looking for a home. So she is in essence dented too. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> No major dents though...

 Quote:

Originally posted by Shepherdgirl- Deanna:
I don't think there is anyone here who thinks all dogs need prongs. Just last night I walked my two GSD's through town without prongs or halti's or chokes. One had on a flat and the other a rolled. To say that they have no place in dog training though it is a bit naieve. Heck to be honest, I have more gadgets and gizmos in my training box than I will ever use on the same dog but there are times that you need something and don't have it that make you all the wiser.

Yep, I own a halti or two, and even a gentle leader(it was given to me by a friend who was closing a pet store) and I have even used the Halti! They do have uses, and can be employed for many different tasks.

There are just some dogs who you will need power steering on at some point. Be it a choke, halti, prong, or e collar. After training the dogs all can go back to a flat collar if the training is worth a hoot.

Anyway, we are WAY off topic.

I'm in agreement with this sentiment. I think it's important that a good handler be able to see what is clearly working and what is not. If your training is any good, the tool that you choose to use will work, and you will see results. I understand that there are a lot of people who use head collars because they "don't want to cause any discomfort to poor little Fluffy". Generally, these people have more problems as dog trainers than just that. But, there are plenty of people who understand what makes their dogs tick, have a good knowledge of dog training, and choose these tools for whatever reason, and are able to make them work. There are a lot of trainers out there who know their stuff who use different methods successfully. I don't see any point in poo-pooing a tool just because some can't use it properly. We could do the same with prong collars, after all. How many people are out there misusing their prong collars at this very moment, do you suppose? I can understand having an opinion on what YOU think is the best tool and what the best methods are. But, it is an opinion in the end.

I dont know about those haltis and gentle leaders I tried both, followed the directions to a T, got half way down the block with my GSD he dropped his head to bring slack in the halti and bit it in half in like 2 seconds flat. I tried it again with a different model, he instead bit the leash in half while I was not paying attention, I know my bad. Lesson learned, he does great on prongs with chain leashes.

Just curious...How does a dog bite a leash in half with out you knowing as you are out walking with the dog? Weren't you holding the other end of the leash? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />