Unarmed?

yeah unarmed, read her post she said she was black and blue!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Kojak, why are all of your posts leading statements, how about starting with what you would do?

Well VANCAMP, I guess I am guilty of this because I teach and train all day long, And in my training I try and inspire people to think like better handlers. If I gave the answer all the time, the dog would never get trained at home. So if I do it here Too much I will change. The other reason is it always feels like many people on this board are waiting in the wings ready to beat any new productive idea to death, Myself included< So I try and preface my answer to get a feel for like minded knowledge. KOJAK

Just a suggestion Kojak,

To help people state your idea in a plain clearly readable step by step method... this question baloney is getting old.

Do you know how to work a dog in a kennel?

Do you know how you use both ends of a leash?

Just say what you mean and mean what you say.

Personally, while the slip method will work, it truely comes down to disobedience. Roping the dog gets the leash on, but in all reality we aren't curing the problem until the dog learns to behave.

I think this argument can turn into a case of "the chicken and the egg" in a hurry

Have fun

Kojak, you wuss. . . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Personally, while the slip method will work, it truely comes down to disobedience. Roping the dog gets the leash on, but in all reality we aren't curing the problem until the dog learns to behave.

True. But it does get the lead on in the short term, eliminating the wrestling match. In the meantime, working on the obedience will help, and can be applied to teaching the dog to sit while being leashed.

Thank you all for taking an interest and offering your suggestions.

I think perhaps that I didn't make myself clear with this foster dog.

This terrier/lab wild child came from "who knows where" and has had no type of obedience training; therefore; she doesn't have a clue as to what a "down" command is..yet; let alone stand on all fours to be collared and leashed in the kennel area where she is housed with other fosters.

When I enter her kennel; she is so happy to see me; immediately begins runing laps within the kennel and bounces off me like I'm a spring board. Perpetual Motion! Once I get a grab onto her collar (I had no choice but to finally leave it on her); she starts her climbing and twisting motion as I am trying to hook the lead to the collar.

I have tried to grab both her paws; elevate, pinch and hold on..with her biting at my hands as I backed her into a corner of the kennel not wanting to give in to her. This went on for a couple of days..no change.
I tried turning her loose in the enclosed run area
to allow her to "run off" some of that energy prior to a lesson..big mistake...took me hours to catch the bitch!

When I grab her collar; her front immediately comes up and I have to literally twist the collar and "choke her out" to get the leash attached. Once I get the leash on..I can then proceed with the "walk on the leash" lesson. She is learning to walk a bit better, when we halt..she starts that climbing routine again and I have placed my knee to her chest to try and correct this..not working, the sit isn't within her ability..perpetual motion..this dog has pushed me almost to the limit..yet..I don't want to give up
on her.

Typically; I don't take a foster to finish them in obedience..only provide the very basic education to give them an edge for adoption.

My teeth and jaws hurt from clenching; I have matching black/blue arms, the jagged scratch down my face from her nails is finally starting to heal, and my body can't take much more abuse!

HELP!

I don't know Barbara, I am thinking a tranquilizer dart. She sounds like more than you were bargaining for.

Barbara,

Why not take the novelty out of seeing you. Take a chair and put it next to the kennel and just sit there until she calms down. Do it a couple of times a day and only train one of them, so your appearance doesn't necessarily mean that she is going out to train.

Has anyone considered letting the dog learn to control herself? By this I mean, make her learn to "contain herself" to get what she wants...i.e. food, attention.

I have a CRAZY Malinois that acts just like this but she is also a food hound. Through trial and error she found out that if she doesn't sit and be calm there will be NO food, NO leaving the kennel for a walk, etc. The problem is that you have to be prepared to walk away from the dog until you get what you want. I too got sick of being mauled when I opened her kennel run or tried to let her in the back door. Exercises like this teach a "scatter brained" hyper dog to contain themselves and then you can add corrections later. Getting physical and trying to wrestle with dogs like this only overloads them and makes the situation worse in most cases. I have worked as a vet tech for years and also am a groomer full time for the last 13 years so I have handled just about every temperament of dog there is at one time or another.

So Barbara, my advice would be to not enter her kennel at all until she is sitting. If she doesn't already know sit then this would be your first step to get control. If she will sit when you approach the gate to her kennel, slowly open the gate, if she breaks then shut it and wait. She will figure it out sooner or later and I make it more important for the dog by teaching it at feeding time. NO sit, NO dinner!

HI Barbara - sounds like you got a real live one there! The dilemma you describe sounds a lot like trying to harness yearling sled dogs who are just so excited about the whole deal! I would go back to the knee in the chest approach, but using the dogs momentum and bring your knee up fast. She has knock the wind out of herself a bit. If she is just bouncing off your knee a bit its too much like a fun game. I would make sure she has a collar with a large attachment ring. The collars we use on the sled dogs have a one and a half inch steel ring that is much easier to grab.
As soon as she bounces off your knee(winded) she will
probably hesitate for a split second which you can use to grab the collar. Get four fingers
under the collar in an overhand grip and immediately elevate the dog so that only her back feet are on the ground, "hop" the dog forward - this is so the dog can't twist itself around in
your grip. Snag the collar ring with the leash
and place the dogs front end on the ground while still retaining a firm grip on the collar. Step on the leash, giving the dog only enough room to stand before you release the collar. Her front end can only come up so far now and you should be able to slip on a choker or prong so you can procede with training. A couple of weeks ago there was a thread on the discussion board that
described the step on the leash method to teach a dog to down (Todd E Gaster I think) and that is the method I would use with this kind of dog as
some of the other methods you are going to end up
with a face full of wild, happy, clawing dog as soon as you bend down. She sounds like a dog of
a pretty resilient nature. Dogs like this can take a pretty strong correction without resentment
which is good as it sometimes takes a degree of firmness to even get their attention focused.
Good Luck with your bronco!