Here is the post by Geel a few years ago. The reason I pasted it here is the link given to it by Charlie doesn't work. Geel works with these dogs but he won't be back till Tuesday. His post is at the end of the thread.

http://leerburg.server294.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=120;t=000026

Alan, really man, I didn't mean to sound like I was down on you. It's the advertising hype I have trouble with.

I don't believe these or any other dog have a magical ability to discern who is a threat and who is not. They decide just the way people do, on the basis of temperment and experience. Nothing is born with that kind of discernment. People get killed every day be people they trust.

I prefer a dog with a higher level of suspicion than most people would, but that means I have a responsibility to the "innocent strange" of society to make sure my judgement overrides my dog's.

In other words, I expect a dog that is willing to "discern threats" to also very likely to make wrong judgements about visiting alzheimers family members waving canes, my schizophrenic neighbor who is no threat -- but walks like one, the kid with Down's syndrome who hits me in jolly camaraderie every time he sees me, etc.

The dog that's perfectly safe, loving and reliable with my all my neighbors, friends and the whole world of those without evil intent, is probably not the one I want to deciding when I need help in really threatening situations.

Sorry. I've lived with more good dogs than anybody has a right to, but none of them fit these hyped Lassie descriptions who have better judgement that Abraham. Mine were just real dogs.

Boerboels may be (and look like they are) physically awesome dogs, but my gut level is they carry with them all of the same dysplastic and cardio problems that all large breeds have (and until there is a database, there's no proof they don't -- here anecdote is not enough). I would also expect them, at minimum, to have all the training and responsiblity issues that go with a large, active, agressive breed.

Which means I don't expect to unwrap and intall said dog in my house all ready to have God and everybody at my garden party, and have him sort out the bad guys. I bet you don't either.

But that kind of advertising puffery leads people who don't know better -- and they are out there reading this -- to decide that's exactly how they can treat this breed. Not wise. And not very truthful advertising...

My apologies to you and your dogs if your experience has been vastly different.

That's OK, you didn't offend me. That's how we understand things better.

I believe we were thinking of two different things in regards to "discerning a threat." I was only talking about such things as someone peaking around a corner, hunching over in a threatening way, pushing or hitting the handler, loud threatening noises etc. I'm not too big on any PP dog being able to "smell a threat" as some claim.

You are right, he should be suspicious enough to be ready to bite anyone at your command but not dominate over family members. I'd rather have one overly suspicious than under. And yes, he should only bite at your command but the every basics of the GSD is that he loves children and can be taken for a walk in the park without trying to bite everyone. We train an alert when on a walk. When the handler goes, "ssssssss" the dog gets ready to bite.

Keep in mind the Boerboel is bred different than our modern GSD's with regards to protection. They have to use their own discernment many times as to what's a threat and what's not because they are running loose on the farm and their job is too protect it against lions, leopards, baboons, people etc that would be a threat to the livestock or their owners. Sounds like more hype <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> but that is their purpose over there. I don't know what the Boerboel's suspicion level is but they do have a good guard drive and a frightening bark.

BTW, I do not own a Boerboel. I only have 7 GSD's. I don't believe we should dump our GSD's in favor of the Boerboel but I do believe they are getting an unfair rap in this thread, that's why I posted what I did.

Will Boerboel's offer protection against lions?
With the exception of Ridgebacks, most dogs will leave an area that even smells of lions ( an old CT trick in the 1970's was to have them smear themselves with lion fat, or something along those lines, to make the village dogs leave before an attack - in the parts of rural Africa that I was in, the dogs were important as an alarm system. )

I'd be interested to know if the Boerboel's will engage a lion - hopefully Rienier will fill us in on this!

I wouldn't give any dog much chance against a leopard ( one on one ), though. They attack via ambush and choose their prey pretty carefully.

Yeah, it would be hard to believe any dog could engage a lion or a leopard one on one. Maybe it's in a pack like the hyena. A lion will run from a pack of hyena.

the boerboel is a good dog for the person who likes mastiff breeds.i dont like the gsd they were not my dog of choice i bought a great pup from a german breeder he did great as sch goes but he drove me crazy with all the barking did that make him a bad dog no bu not the dog for me i bought a rott or sch and had a great time they mature a little slower but so what and after having a boerboel its the same thing they mature slower than a gsd.there are bad examples of any breed i worked at an animal clinic for five years and i seen first hand labs,gsd,poodles,these dogs put to sleep because the owners though the dogs to much for them to handle.half the gsd at the training grounds bark and growl before you can get near them or the handler.boerboel is a good dog it would do ok in sch but would do much better in psa or ppda.

I am waiting to go to work but I will cover this subject in more detail tomorrow:
Well he who alleges must prove so read testimonials from people all over the world on the last link.

And a leopard is a small cat, only 34kg (17 pounds) a female and male 50-60Kg (25 to 30 pounds) and 75 cm high, so the Boerboel is the same size and some way bigger, a Boerboel is known for killing leopards, but no never a lion at 120 kg 1,2 meters high I think that that would be a tall order in any dogs language.

Just a thought, The Boerboel was bred originally for hunting large game and protecting live stock

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

http://www.dogs-in-canada.com/breeds/south_african_boerb.html

http://www.african-boerboel.co.za/breedingstock.htm

http://www.african-boerboel.co.za/newowners.htm

Well, maybe I worded that wrong - will a Boerboel at least bark/ alert on lion scent?

The Boerboel as a Working Dog

The following article appeared in the November issue of "Die Boerboel" the official publication of the S.A.B.T.

It was written by Shaamil Majiet. Mr. Majiet has a guard dog and security business in Cape Town, South Africa.
For the past few years I have been training guard dogs for personal protection as well as commercial security purposes we used mainly German Shepherds and Rottwailers. When we acquired our first Boerboel (a bitch), not much was known about the breed. It was especially in its working ability that I was interested in. I then preceded to train it and. place it with our commercial working dogs. We supply many of the larger companies in Cape Town and our dogs therefore has to work under varying conditions. They sometimes have to work amongst crowds and other times alone guarding premises in dangerous areas.

For commercial purposes, dogs have to be alert and aggressive but at the same time, have a steady temperament as they often have to work with different handlers, They have to be obedient to that handler but firm enough to attack and protect when called upon. Size is important, as a big dog can be a goods deterrent to criminals They also have to be agile enough when chasing a person. Not only must they have a good bark, but be able te bite hard when needed.

The bitch proved to train well and be obedient and, with the protection work, did well. We later added a male, Groenvlei Clyde, to our collection and these two were mated. The pups were placed in different homes so as to draw a development comparison.

The Boerboel proved to be a good working dog. The two we have are used all over Cape Town to promote the breed as a working dog. Many questions were asked and people were impressed The Working Boerboel had come to Cape Town!

Recently they were used at the University of the Western Cape to guard the hostels in an effort to recover millions in unpaid fees. Even in crowd control situations they were indispensable on the technical side the following can he noted:

It is fairly obedient and trains well. It is intelligent enough to understand you. It is agile and strong enough to master most of the agility jumps. It has a laud enough bark to deter any person at a distance. Its natural guarding ability makes it an excellent sentry dog. But it is the power that is really impressive. It has almost twice the power of the average Rottweiler. It bites very hard and conventional attack suits prove almost useless, so extra padding has to be added. Yet its good temperament makes it an easily controllable dog. Recently, our third male, Boelie, saved a guards life when he was attacked by four men. After being ordered away the first time, the thieves had returned a second time, apparently with firearms. Boelie was then released and he chased all four of them away, biting two of them in the chase. On the down side it eats more than the other guard dog breeds. It also develops slower and reaches emotional maturity later than the others. It sometimes is playful, which can be irritating to a trainer

To other breeders out there, please breed so that we do not lose the working ability of the breed. (As had happened to many other breeds). The standard calls for a workable size, breed towards that. Too heavy and too large a dog, will tire easily. Do not neglect its guarding ability at the expense of the temperament. Do not breed for looks alone. Remember we are breeding a Guard breed, which should be practical dogs. Let us work together to promote our breed. It is time that our own guard breed takes its rightful place.

Shaamil Majiet

Hi Will, I know from previous threads that you know your stuff, because you have a lot of people batting for you as a good trainer. But you apparently had some bad luck with my favorite dog breed, the Boerboel, so without getting personal I was trying to get other sources to back up my statements. Well I can in al honesty not answer that last question truth fully. I could pretend to know all there is to know about Boerboel’s and lions. But the leopard thing I can vouch for. Loins –I will have to ask around. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />