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Re: Schutzhund vs. Real life
[Re: Natalia Dziekonski ]
#58888 - 09/10/2002 03:19 PM |
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Was at a PP event a month ago. Most PP dogs would not bite that hidden suit. Was shocking to see, some went for the handlers?
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Re: Schutzhund vs. Real life
[Re: Natalia Dziekonski ]
#58889 - 09/10/2002 03:21 PM |
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That's true too, my great aunt had a Doberman back in the late 70s, early 80s. She didn't know ANYTHING about training/sport, etc. That dog she had was a straight killer. He would attack anything, even her son, put him in the hospital.
Not that I condone something like that or a dog with that form of control. Unfortuately my Aunt was or is a whackjob. We all have one in the family I guess.
Rottweilers and Malinois are more common I think as to dogs that would be this way (without the training) It's not that they're better necessarily, it's just that the public hasn't had time to water them down. There's GSDs out there from top to bottom. Some are very submissive and some are like Malinois.
Interesting point to make Van Camp, but I'd still want to do a little practical training.
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Re: Schutzhund vs. Real life
[Re: Natalia Dziekonski ]
#58890 - 09/10/2002 03:30 PM |
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Originally posted by Michael Talyor Rivers:
This is the problem with our sport. The dogs no longer have to work in fight drive to get a V rating. I have a friend that has a great dog, but it was worked in prey and a strong decoy worked him last week, and sticked him harder then normal. The dog came off the sleeve and was a bit unnerved. My point is that this dog if it had not been worked by this decoy he would have most likley made it though a trial and get great points.
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Re: Schutzhund vs. Real life
[Re: Natalia Dziekonski ]
#58891 - 09/10/2002 03:37 PM |
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Ok, hit that button a little quick!
How can you blame a sport for a handler who doesn't train his dog well? Failing to prepare the dog to handle a significant threat or to generalize the behavior to other helpers is a flaw in the training, not the sport. Except for the change in using a reed stick years ago, which stung more, Schutzhund hasn't changed the routine (or the threat) hardly at all. And if the dog isn't being pushed into "fight", is that necessarily cuz the sport is bad? Could it be cuz the dog has good enough nerves that there is no REASON to go into fight? He's seen it a hundred times and he's confident - why feel any threat at all?
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Re: Schutzhund vs. Real life
[Re: Natalia Dziekonski ]
#58892 - 09/10/2002 03:50 PM |
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I can see your point Sch3. The bad part is though is there's a lot of handlers making bad decisions, there going to make them regardless. True it's their fault not the sport. Do you think though it would be better just to blame the handler or do something that could curve the problem to help the sporting lines, with all breeds.
I have no problem with Schutzhund, but I would like to see some things done that measure the quality of the dog, not just the handler. I think it would help all the protection breeds that compete and help for the greater good.
I'm not saying Ring sports are superior BUT I don't see or hear of stories of show dogs or dogs that aren't good enough title in it like you hear in the Schutzhund sport. Since you are more experienced than myself, what's the solution for this problem in your opinion?
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Re: Schutzhund vs. Real life
[Re: Natalia Dziekonski ]
#58893 - 09/10/2002 03:57 PM |
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Brad,
There are "questionable" dogs that title in ALL sports. A good trainer can elevate marginal dogs to knew heights, so don't make the mistake of thinking that any one sport can determine a dog's quality. A sport (and I love most of 'em) is just that---a sport.
k
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Re: Schutzhund vs. Real life
[Re: Natalia Dziekonski ]
#58894 - 09/10/2002 04:02 PM |
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That's correct, sport is sport. I just wonder if there's anything that could be done to up the performance statistically. That's my question. It's probably much more complicated than a simple answer, if anyone has one in their mind though PM me. We'll discuss it.
Just for the recond, I'm no expert. If there's any big Schutzhund people reading this, I'm not bashing the sport. I don't want to give that impression. There are many solid dogs that come out of this sport like any other.
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Re: Schutzhund vs. Real life
[Re: Natalia Dziekonski ]
#58895 - 09/10/2002 04:04 PM |
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I'm of the opinion that it is the judging that is letting us down. We KNOW when we see a dog with iffy courage, tentative grips, slows to a crawl on the courage test, looks around constantly in the guarding, etc. But do they receive the score they truly earned? No. How often have you seen one awarded a "sufficient" in courage, even tho it obviously was appropriate? Is it fear of pissing folks off and losing membership (and thus revenues)? Is it a mindset that this is a recreational sport, and people have worked hard, so aw shucks, let's let them pass and make them happy? I don't know, but I've seen some of the sorriest judging in the last couple trials I've been to, passing dogs that wouldn't bite a biscuit with jelly on it, and obedience that shouldn't have earned a BH, much less a Sch1.
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Re: Schutzhund vs. Real life
[Re: Natalia Dziekonski ]
#58896 - 09/10/2002 04:14 PM |
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Sch3FH2,
You are RIGHT ON TARGET, here!!! Unfortunately, I don't have an answer for the solution. One would hope that as the dogs progress from club trial, to regionals, and then to nationals, the judging should get more rigorous, demanding, and critical, thereby rewarding the efforts of the less serious and capable handlers/dogs without demeaning the sport at the top levels of competition. I guess this happens to an extent.
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Re: Schutzhund vs. Real life
[Re: Natalia Dziekonski ]
#58897 - 09/10/2002 04:23 PM |
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LMAO!!!!!!! Not even with Jelly on it? Badtimes . . . That was a good one.
Not to change the standard, and there's not alot I could see doing with judging, on who they like or their opinions. Maybe if there was an event that made them practically sink or swim in trial?
I don't have an idea on how that would be.
I guess it goes back to whose the handler, whose the breeder, what type of dogs they produce. This issue irritates me a bit now because I'm left with the same solution as before, lol. I have no idea what could be done. I guess that's life.
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