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Re: Definition of BI
[Re: Mike Franklin ]
#60863 - 01/31/2003 12:04 PM |
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He *is* a docile animal, he is not a Puma altho he does have comparable energy levels.
He's (one more time), engaging us as littermates in playbiting, not waging serious attacks. It would take a very powerful, forceful correction to convince him to bite his playmates more gently.
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Re: Definition of BI
[Re: Mike Franklin ]
#60864 - 01/31/2003 12:07 PM |
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so does that mean he has to "learn" bite inhibition, which means he did not inherit some natural instinct which would keep him from chomping on everything, including you?
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Re: Definition of BI
[Re: Mike Franklin ]
#60865 - 01/31/2003 12:28 PM |
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Scott,
You are not getting this. All pups play bite. What makes a domestic dog a domestic dog is the fact that he can accept a human as a pack member naturally. Pups learn to gauge their bites when they play w/littermates, and they play w/us the same way they play w/each other.
But, you're doing apples and oranges b/c you are trying to turn this into the bite inhibition that makes dogs genetically predisposed to not biting us in *seriousness*, not in quasi littermate play.
And, one more time. I never said there is no such thing as learned bite inhibition. What I'm saying is that the species carries inhibitions against biting humans. Lee came the closest to getting it when he talks about how we have selectively bred for docility.
This thread *could* have led to a useful discussion about how pups are impacted by various degrees of correction for playbiting and whether that affects them later on in protection work.
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Re: Definition of BI
[Re: Mike Franklin ]
#60866 - 01/31/2003 01:03 PM |
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i'm still confused, but i always get confused when people talk about genetics. does anyone really know for certain what qualties are inherited or not? aside from physical characteristics, we don't even know what tendencies, temperaments and qualities people inherit, let alone dogs. contrary to what joy has written, i believe this has been a very interesting discussion and only proves that a good guess is all we have regarding inherited bite inhibition.....therefore i will have to agree with lee and robert's comments on their experiences.
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Re: Definition of BI
[Re: Mike Franklin ]
#60867 - 01/31/2003 03:31 PM |
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Temperament is inherited.
Folks who spend enough yrs in dogs figure this out sooner or later.
Dogs and humans are different species, you cannot compare which traits are heritable.
Good early handling makes the best of what the dog has genetically. It does not make a dog w/weak temperament into a strong dog.
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Re: Definition of BI
[Re: Mike Franklin ]
#60868 - 01/31/2003 03:56 PM |
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Btw, doesn't anyone want to talk about the original question, which (if I understand it correctly) is whether correcting a pup from chomping on humans will affect his ability to be a PPD later?
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Re: Definition of BI
[Re: Mike Franklin ]
#60869 - 01/31/2003 04:01 PM |
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The difference between Lee and VC's statements and Joy's, if I understand correctly, is that Joy is taking the position that bite inhibition is an integral part of temperment which is ultimately based on genetics(subject to a certain level of modification through training). Lee and VC state that while temperment is genetically based, bite inhibition is different in that it's a learned trait, not one that is genetically based. ie - even a "docile" dog will bite hard on a person if it's not taught that behavior is unacceptable - it won't naturally inhibit its bite simply because the bitee is a person as opposed to, lets say, a cat.
The three of you should now feel free to tell me that I got it all wrong. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Definition of BI
[Re: Mike Franklin ]
#60870 - 01/31/2003 04:04 PM |
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I'd be happy to provide input on the original question if I had an opinion based upon anything but conjecture. Since I don't, I'll leave that to the "experts."
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Re: Definition of BI
[Re: Mike Franklin ]
#60871 - 01/31/2003 04:36 PM |
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Why not share your personal training experiences?
This is an interesting topic, it seems as if opinions are all over the map about correcting mouthy pups.
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Re: Definition of BI
[Re: Mike Franklin ]
#60872 - 01/31/2003 04:41 PM |
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