http://www.duitseherders.com/foto-kalle.html
Does it look like a freak?
Here's the thing, how come this wasn't dealt with a long time ago?
I know I'm not an expert in genetics, but I don't think many early breeders had a problem culling dogs with this breed, why did they allow this?

I'm just asking, I don't know. Is it just a common thing that happens?

I am not an expert on dogs but would like to ask how can a long coated gsd be AKC registered if it is such a fault to the breed or is this irelevant?
Excuse my spelling but english is not my first language

The AKC registers dogs based on the fact that both parents are registered. It doesn't matter if they meet the standard or not. If a dog that doesn't meet the standard is showed in conformation it is excused, but that is the limit of the AKC's action. The dog could compete in any other AKC sponsored event.

Because the AKC will register a pink dog if you send them the money. AKC papers in no way shape or form indicate quality or breed worth.

 Quote:

http://www.duitseherders.com/foto-kalle.html Does it look like a freak?

Was there indeed a longhair WUSV champ?

Tranlation from above referenced site:
"Kalle is not koer'd due to the fact that he is a "longstockhair". There were in fact many longstockhair participating. In the Nederlands they may not even participate in the WUSV selection competition. In many other countries however, they are permitted to enter (top)competitionsport. A confirmation re the quality for all those fans of the "longstockhair" who for years have strived for the acceptance of this variant coat.

There is a named lobby in Germany for the acknowledgement of the longstockhair. At the last General meeting of the SV there was a motion for the reversal of this exclude-breeding fault which was shoved aside (tabled). Ironic that now the "motherland" produced a longstockhair as world champion, with world wide "exposure" for his top performance..

Long coat is a simple recessive- if for example a long coated dog was bred to a bitch with NO long coat genes- all the pups would be normal coated(but carry the gene for long coat). Long coat to long coat- all pups will be long. Short to short- ahh, there's the fun one- any or all of the above. It's a recessive gene- it hides behind the dominant gene. It can hide for 50 or more generations before the combination allows it to show again.

Long coats have no undercoat?- depends on the dog. If it has the genes for a "dry" coat- then no undercoat. If it has the genes for a normal double coat- then only the guard hairs will be long. A coat can range from only a few extra wispy hairs around the ears and toes to a Terv like coat.

Years ago Al Kerr won the US FH championship with Ahab, a coated GSD. At that same time the SV would bump a dog down a grade for being coated. So a dog that otherwise would be rated V was officially an SG. Somewhere I have a rating card from a german style USA show in the 80's for an untitled dog rated G, bumped down from an SG. At some point after that the rules were changed to not allow coated dogs to compete at the higher levels in either venue. Long coat has not always been the horror that it is today.

And to bring in that other organization- The standard in the US used to put the same amount of weight to a long coat as to poor temperament or poor foot structure- just more visible. It was NOT a disqualification, but a fault. There is a difference.

Anna Carson

Never mind. Found my answer.

WUSV wereldkampioenschap Oostenrij 3-6 /10/2002 No 1:
HELMUT BERNINGER / DEUTSCHLAND / KALLE WELZBACHTAL
99 94 96 289 V

Wow, is she gorgeous or what?!

Anyway, for those who like longcoated GSDs and don't mind them being on the big side, they can go get a Shiloh Shepherd. The working ability is questionable but the look is definetely there.
For those who want a long-haired GSD look-alike that can work too -there is the Belgian Tervuren...

There are CHOICES people, let's not talk about changing a great breed that has proven itself for ages in various positions when their ARE other choices.

Kalle may be gorgeous but she is NOT a proper GSD. Just like a GSD with green eyes could be gorgeous but not be a proper example of the breed. She can be bred but she can't be shown -which is GREAT! People then KNOW what they are buying and the breed stays intact. Nobody looses.

I only wish soft coated Giants got the same treatment -they have RUINED the breed in the US and their working ability sucks. Even if they were bred for working temperament their legs have more hair than an Afghan (impossible in the field)and their coat isn't waterproof like the standard says it should be. Still, MOST U.S. breeders are breeding AGAINST the standard! I only hope there will soon be a seperate breed called the 'American Giant' before people loose all sight of the 'real thing' which is a VERY diferent dog.

Isn't it hipocritical of judges to be strict in some cases (longhaired GSDs) and BLIND in other breeds where the deviation from the standard is much greater (Giants)?
The difference is so great that although I have a Top European Champion Giant (German bred) he would get the "BOOT" in an American show because he has a very harsh coat (which the standard demands!)
Just one of the many 'mysteries' of dog showing...

They COULD just change the standard but it is truly IMPOSSIBLE for any dog to work with so much leg hair.... They would then have to kick the Giant out of the working group altogether!

This is off topic but everyone has their pet -pieves! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

True longcoats only have *one* coat. Usually the undercoat that is very fluffy, soft, and it does not 'resist' water, burrs, etc. When they get wet, the coat soaks up the water and it is a detriment or at the very least a real pain to working ability (at least when you are using them for herding).

However, there are some longcoats that have both the undercoat and outer coat. These dogs are no different than many of the other longer coated herding breeds and coat does resist water and other things.

In the American or Canadian conformation ring these are still considered a serious fault but I will say that I have seen them shown and I do know of 2 in the U.S. that have thier championship. Course, they did cut/shave down the coat.

As far as longer coat hiding ticks better. That has nothing to do with the standard. It is personal choice. If one lives in a tick borne area you should be checking the coat daily, espeically if you are out in high grass or wooded areas. Probably in reality a dog with a longer , thick double coat would be easier to find the tick before it actually could bore into the skin!

Stella,
I'm not concerned with standards since I only handle working dogs. The true test of the GSD is his ability to do his job.
However, I guess the judges have to draw a line aomewhere. They consider a coat that is so long that the hair falls in a natural part down the back to be a fault.
I have worked with a very fine line of East German dogs with long coats that parted on the back. These were from a long line of great police and border dogs that served us well.
When it comes to doing the job, the length of coat matters zero. I'll take a big dog with intelligence, strength, stamina, speed and a powerful full mouth bite with any kind of coat he wants to grow.