That is where I would start and would start conditioning the dog with rewards to people it knows while not allowing him or her to exhibited aggressive behavior until we go together to explore the “intruder” who could be aunt Martha with a bone.

The problem with this type of aggression, like all aggression problems, it is multifaceted. The act of aggression has been sort of self-rewarding to the dog, for the reasons Todd mentioned. Re-cap: The intruder left as a result of the dog’s actions.

Wussy, postal worker soon become the favorite treat of all. Not only that you are trying to go against the dog’s natural territorial instincts. Obviously a huge problem because if the action of barking is considered the highest reward you wont be able to predict the outcome of any situation where the dog is inclined to go off. Not only this, the dog is rewarding his own behavior when you are not with him and undoing any training solutions you are promoting. Isolating the dog and simply have a mail box out of eye and ear sight from your dog during a whole program designed to recondition territorial responses would be my best advice.

This situation is similar to some K-9s in their patrol car. Going off at any moving excuse. The officer will be deaf if he or she doesn’t get the problem under control and teach the dog it is allowed only to go off when told to.

You will not know if you tense or not. The dog will. It could be something as simple as your heart rate accelerating. Or a change in breathing pattern.

Your dog has to know, that it is your house. Your deck and your backyard.

Lee, doesn't this sound like a dominant dog(albeit not like we see in clubs)but still a dominant dog? I would say that if it was fear aggression, it would happen no matter where they were, walks or no walks. I would think it would happen more on a walk where the dog is in unfamiliar territory than at home. If it is based in fear.

Anyway, what I reccomend for my clients is to do a 30 minute down. Attach the 6 foot leash and tell the dog down. You sit on the leash(again up by the snap) the dog can stand the head is at the ground. You are there for 30 minutes. If the dog is stronger than you attach the leash to like a couch leg and then sit on it. Do this everyday for a week. After a weeks time if you can go for 30 minutes w/o the dog putting up a fuss and trying to get up, move to the deck and do it again. Once that is done, go to the back yard and do it again. You are now putting the dog in a submissive posture in the places he feels is his own. You are doing it with one command, and while he struggles you remain nice and calm. Telling the dog he is so far beneath you that he doesn't even get you excited when he challenges you. the key to all of this is you remaining calm. Nothing physical. Nice and calm.

As we get more info, bit by bit, I'm still seeing fear MIXED with territorial when it is home-based. But no, I don't see dominance. I can't reconcile this as dominant behavior to hide behind the owner or under furniture, to sit close by the owner when approached by a stranger on the street (obviously I am reading this behavior as a comfort/security seeking behavior, not a protective behavior) and then shrinking back from the stranger if pressed even just a little; hackling up and showing every tooth in his head screams insecurity, not dominance, to me. He feels "braver" on his home turf cuz he's backed up by his family and he's invested in his home territory; he's also possibly somewhat cornered on the deck as someone approaches, which lends to further insecurity. I haven't heard anything about his household interactions with his owners that points me towards dominance. Some role confusion, yeah. Alpha dog trying to assert himself - no. with this owner, if this were a dominant dog, the argument would be over in an instant, I suspect. There would be no more confusion; the dog would win. But she's not describing owner-aggression, only non-family aggression, and then in a VERY insecure, fearful manner.

My 4yo Lab exhibits territorial behavior. If it's someone he knows, he calms down as soon as they come in the door (actually, he'll sniff the crack of the door, and if he recognizes the scent, he starts wagging his body happily). But if it's a stranger, especially a tall man, it takes him a while to calm down. How I handle it is I put him on his six foot leash clipped to his buckle collar and put him in a down, away from the guest. When the dog is calm, he may greet the person (I sometimes have the person give him a treat; this makes some people feel more comfortable around the dog). Also, I have him in a distraction level obedience class, where we work on obedience with food, toy, prey, and social distractions. I know that if I give the dog the option, he will continue to menace the visitor with stiff walking, hackles, and barking, until he sees fit to stop. So, I don't give him the option. I take control.

If I have a service person over fixing an appliance, or anything like that, I just put the dog outside to avoid any problems. Better safe than sorry (if they're "casing the joint" for later, they will know I have a big black territorial dog). I do find it comforting when home alone at night that I can count on him to put on a display, should a stranger approach or enter the house. I don't have myself fooled for a minute that he would actually protect me, but I know that a barking dog is a deterrent to many bad guys, and will buy me time to protect myself.

I think something like that is what Todd is talking about, to eventually get Knuckles to that point. But I think eliminating that particular trigger and working on obedience under distraction for a decent length of time would be an important first step before trying the leash/down thing.

Lee, Todd,
I agree this doesn't sound like dominance, but more like fear and territorial behavior. Where the dominance comes in is that the person is not in control, so the dog feels like he has to be, which is outside his comfort zone, being a fearful dog. He'd probably rather not have the responsibility.

Todd, Lisa, Lee and Dennis, thank you for your insight.

Lee you stated (this is a partial from the post)
obviously I am reading this behavior as a comfort/security seeking behavior, not a protective behavior, actually your post (at 3:05 pm) for not seeing the dog is about what my trainer said. Especially the comfort/security behavior, the home, feeling cornered on the deck etc.
This dog has never shown aggression toward my husband and I or my daughter. You can feed the dog a biscuit with one end in your mouth, and he gentle takes it out.
My granddaughter feed him chicken out of her hand yesterday.
He is constantly on his back in a submissive position looking for belly rubs.
I believe the problem was us, not being strong leaders, etc. Some of the problems Postal workers he had when we got him.

I really appreciate the time you have taken to look at this problem/concern and let me use your knowledge and experience to learn.

Thanks again

I have been working every day on the down/stay command. He downs fine, it is the staying part that is the stickler.

I do sit out on the deck with him (when I know no one is around) and put him in a down and make him stay. I do this on the side of the deck that is not near the street. If he hears something, and starts to get up, I say NO down. If he doesn't comply, I make him comply.

Lisa is starting to get what I mean. I think because of whatever reason this dog was placed into a spot where he had to become the alpha. Like iot or not. He didn't have the genetic make up to be alpha. So there have been behaviors derived from this. Which have been described. I think a clear message to the dog as to who is alpha and these behaviors will vanish as quickly as they manifested. Try they sitting on the leash and see what happens. Keep doing your other stuff as mentioned by your trainer. Just add this sitting on the leash as I described and see what happens.

When you are sitting with him on the deck and he hears a noise and gets up, you say no down. he has already won. He chose to break your command because he felt something was more important. Your second down, is nothing more than a oh well, if I hear something again I will get up. If you use the step on the leash method, you can bridge the gap with a uh uh uh uh uh----until you get there and then restep. No new command. the uh uh is connecting the wrong behavior time wise until you are able to get there and enforce the issue. Even if you aare on the deck with him you are giving him a chance to react and screw up. you be there and stand on the leash or better yet you siot on the ground with him.

Originally posted by Todd E. Gaster:
Lisa is starting to get what I mean. I think because of whatever reason this dog was placed into a spot where he had to become the alpha. Like iot or not. He didn't have the genetic make up to be alpha. So there have been behaviors derived from this. Which have been described. I think a clear message to the dog as to who is alpha and these behaviors will vanish as quickly as they manifested. Try they sitting on the leash and see what happens. Keep doing your other stuff as mentioned by your trainer. Just add this sitting on the leash as I described and see what happens. I agree just onelast thing get your trainer involved and do it. Two eyes and heads will see the situation better.

....I'm still concerned about punishing him when he sees the mail carrier. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> If this dog is as confused as I think he is, I'm not sure he understands why he is being punished. And if the sight of the mail carrier is enough to send him over the edge, then he may not even be capable of understanding at that particular moment anyway.....but, I'm no expert..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />