Ok Mike I like that definition, along with clearifying the terms. I don't mind being scrutenized if I learn something.

Tracy is right bout the DS, but there was a time when they came in various coats and colors.

Originally posted by Don B. Ackerson:
Tracy is right bout the DS, but there was a time when they came in various coats and colors. They still do come in various coats, but all are brindle (just varying shades). Most people are used to just seeing the short haired version though.

Mike,

Have you ever seen a long coated DS?

(I'm NOT trying to be a wise A$$ here. I am REALLY wanting to know. )

I know that they come 3 coats, but you only really ever see the short coated ones. (I have seen OLD pictures of the longcoats.)
Also, anyone know if there are rough (wire) coated ones anymore? (They are the ones that came in "other" colors.)

I haven't seen anything other than short coats in person, but I recently saw a site for a kennel overseas that had long coated DS in their breeding program.

Hi: I'm a new member and am impressed with the depth of questions and answers being given. My husband and I recently purchased a German Shepherd pup from a cross b/n working and show lines. The reason we purchased a dog from out of the U.S. was our fear of increased hip and other health problems with US bred dogs. We knew two others who had dogs from this breeder and they were VERY happy with them. Additionally, we had researched and found that sables with medium coats really were what most original shepherds had been like. Our breeder had sables and we chose a pup that has turned out to be silver and black (light silver and black cape with a darker body). His confirmation, so far is fine. We had him x-rayed at 3 mos and now at 6 mos. So far all is well. Hips, elbows, back all fine. We are fortunate to have WSU vetrinary school 8 miles from us and this is a great resource. The vets as WSU were fascinated with Tyr because he was so "different" from other shepherds they normally see. Tyr's line of back if flat, but he has (as he should) some angulation to the hock. He is heavy boned with large head and huge paws. The behaviorialist tested him and he scored in the top 1% for intelligence. The testing took over 4 hours. Tyr is a massive pup will great leg height and incredible head neck and shoulders. We had so many breeders here ask us not to neuter him so that you could breed him to their females. We know nothing about breeding, but didn't feel these folks were looking at anything but looks. We constantly get comments such as, "no way he's a german shepherd. He's a wolf hybrid." No, he's not, he has a sable coat, huge neck mane and massive bone structure. He is registered CKC and is all german shepherd. We love his color and he loves us dearly. Although he is not aggressive, just his look keep most folks away. We feel sad about this because Tyr is 6 mos. old, neutered, and loves to play. We try to find folks who can get past his "look" and once they see how gentle he is all is well. I think once folks get past the standard Americn tri color they are used to, these sable dogs may become very popular. I'd hate to see breeders suddenly breed for color and only continue the American Shepherds health degeneration. We love our silver sable shepherd! Thanks for listening.

Tracy

I went Google and did a search and was able to see all 3 type DS the Short haired, Long haired and Rough haired DS. Not bad looking dogs some of the short haired looked more like striped mals and the long haired looked like the Teruen, the rough looked like a large schanuzer, like a DS with a schanuzer muzzel, with a rough coat. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Tracy wrote - By the way, I am fully aware that there are working line dogs that are black and tan. (From what I have seen, they also tend to be black and TAN not black and RED ( or should I say "orange". Tough the orange color can be "helped along" by what they are fed.)

Anyway, in my first post I was just trying to answer the questions you posted. But, now I am starting to think you were just being "wise" with your questions about the black and tans/reds and not looking for an answer.

My reply -
I'm sorry Tracy I thought you meant that I was mistaken because Show line dogs can't do the work, I stand corrected and fully understand what you are saying.


But couldn't a Working line Sable couple throw a Black and Tan??? Especially the Sable black over brown, my puppy was that color at birth now he is Blanket backed.

You must can read my mind you answered my post before I asked it. But wait before you start looking for a stage manager, I didn't read your full quote and cut and paste after I wrote my post and my question is already answered.


Thanks
Tracy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

Originally posted by Don B. Ackerson:
But couldn't a Working line Sable couple throw a Black and Tan???

Yep, we had 3 in a litter of 8 out of 2 sable parents (one a black factored bitch and the other a male that has thrown bicolors).

And there are a few working line dogs that are black & red, Scott vH Antverpa and "C" litter vom Haus Valkenplatz come to mind straight away. Though they're not as common (thank god) as they are in Showlines, they are around.

I'm new to all of this but, what does it matter how a dog looks if he's got a terrible temperment.
I've got a 5 month old GSD (female, still havein' trouble using the word "bitch" my kids really do not understand) and when I was looking for a dog a local breeder checked me pretty hard on the issue of looks. I told her I wanted a pretty dog and she told me to buy a puppy calander to look at and find a dog with a good temperment first. She outlined it like this: 1.Temperment 2. Structure 3. Looks
All that said I like the look of the sables on the Leerburg site.

Steve said

"I told her I wanted a pretty dog and she told me to buy a puppy calander to look at"

That is a good one Steve, really made my day laughing out so loud that my tears came out <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I would agree with the breeder that you look first for temprement, structure, looks in that order of importance. If you don't like what you see just go to another breeder and use the same method until you found something up to your standard.

Anyway black and tans or saddle back is the public opinion of a GSD cause they had been brainwashed into thinking so from the shows. Like Mike said, I too will never want a saddle back unless he has got a real kick ass drive that I can't get in sables or blacks....lol....maybe I fall into the category of pro-sables and blacks <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />