Will, in all seriousness, you make a valid argument for children participating in the sport. But take a look at USA. They have been aggressively pushing a youth program agenda for months. Their latest magazine features an 8 year old girl that just titled her Malinois to SchH1. The dog is almost as tall as she is! So if an organization this large is going to be "responsible" then why not mandate a minimum age requirement to trial a dog? Or change the rules so that an adult can go through the protection routine with the child in case something goes awry. JMO

22 here for all the young people, just so you're not alone <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

John,
You are right - a significant part of the young people being allowed on the training fields during bite work can be attributed to the poor guidance of SchH USA - they're trading publicity for safety, and it's a stupid exchange. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I sound like a broken record, but it bears repeating - things only have to go badly *once* with children and bite work and the result would be a nasty public backlash towards SchH. It just is not worth the risk.

It takes a while for kids to develop adequate reflexes, much less strength, to handle a dog. Just like you can't expect a perfect heel from a pup. For all intents and purposes, the dog doesn't have a handler (someone that can grab and restrain the dog) when a young kid is the only one there.

The scariest thing that I have seen is kids with Mexican chihuahuas. Those things are like rats on speed and the kids just can't react quick enough to hold it back.

I guess a major point here is that we can't just send these kids on the field alone. I started taking riding lessons when I was 6, and my kids grew up with horses. Our kids also grew up in a hunting household. They DID NOT have BB guns...guns are not a toy. And we DID NOT allow reckless behavior with the dogs or horses either. The key is correct guidance and supervision, and an emphasis on safety. We have to be beside the youth participants to assist them on the spot. And I've seen some very incompetent adults! I agree that kids are of a size and lack of strenghth to have the same control as an adult, but teaching must be done wisely.

Sue

I agree completely with Sue. Granted, my 9-year-old daughter Brianna is EXTREMELY strong (a legacy of the past four years spent Irish dancing). Our dog Ceili is very good natured and tolerant of anything a child can throw at her. And, even considering all that, there is NO WAY that Brianna works Ceili in obedience unless I am right there. Not sitting on the porch - right there to lend a hand. I also don't allow her to work Ceili outside of a fenced area, to prevent a "chase-the-dog" game should Ceili break free and decide she feels like a jog. She doesn't teach new commands, only works with ones previously taught by me or my husband.

Brianna needs the supervision to assist her in making the proper decisions, making proper corrections, praising correctly - basically all the things that an obedience handler needs to know at any age. I also want to be sure that she doesn't do (inadvertently) anything that would damage Ceili's willingness to work, or end up teaching the dog a bad habit. AND I want to be there in case Ceili decides that it's playtime. A 70 lb dog getting rowdy with an 80 lb child can spell problems, and a child can get hurt, even if the dog WASN'T being aggressive or intending to cause damage. Heck, Ceili could knock someone over with her tail. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Never in a million years would I dream of letting a child do bitework with a dog. No way, no matter how intelligent the child or obedient the dog. It just seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

I do think, though, if we want dog sports to continue, we do have to involve the younger generation at early ages - watching, helping fetch and carry, helping to groom, encouraging questions, handling in BASIC obedience (under controlled supervision), etc. Like a lot of things - a goodly number of years spent itching to get on the field will make it that much sweeter when they DO get out there, and if they've stuck with it all that time of NOT being able to handle, chances are they're really devoted and will develop into competent, caring handlers.

JMHO - feel free to disregard at will. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

JMHO - feel free to disregard at will.


Well, that's mean - now everyone's picking on me.....


JUST KIDDING!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Ok, so what age do you deem appropriate for a person under 18 to train a dog in sch?

I could see a mature 12 year old doing Ob without difficulty.

And yes, there are undoubtably mature and powerful 16 year olds that can handle a dog in bite work ( both Kevin Sheldalh's son and Ed's son come to mind, and I've seen both of them in action, not to mention Bernhard Flink's son, Michael, who was also a competant handler under his father's direction )

But this is America, the land of blood sucking laywers and endless law suits. The increased legal liabilty, not to mention potentil bad press, still makes me say that age 18 ought to be the entry level age for bite work.

Yeah, I'm being an old fogey here, but I'm a cautious old fogey. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

EEEP! Sorry, Will!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Disregard at...your convenience??

I do think your age suggestions are pretty on-target. I'd never think of letting my daughter do anymore than she does now - just too risky for both her and Ceili. As she matures, she can take on more responsibility.