I consider myself a novice but I have worked with Mals , Dutchies , Czech and other GSDS.I dont like to make a big deal about what lines or even what breed a dog is.Good dogs are hard enough to find without adding to the stereotypes out there.I believe in looking at the individual and not the breed or what country they originated in.I will say that the few Czechs I have been around did not have a sense of humor.They were serious,serious,serious.I have evil ideas of breeding a tough Czech to a really nasty Dutch someday..LOL

I have seen too many Mals with major shepherd traits A'tim being one of them. I saw a black shepherd from this board thet had huge mali traits. I also think that the czech guys don't play around with worthless stud dogs like we do here in the states. I think that in too many pedigrees I see one really strong dog and the rest so-so. I think the czechs tried harder and got better results for it.

Tracy wrote: "The Czech dogs started coming into the USA after the fall of the USSR."

USSR? Hmmm. . .

"USSR" stands for union of soviet socialist republics, of which czechoslavakia was a member. now the former czechoslavakia is two countries: the czech republic and slovakia. under the ussr, the "czech" dogs bred for border patrol work had to have presence to deter border activity, hence the size, darker pigment and larger head, and also as far as temperament, the sharpness characteristic of lines going back to border patrol work.
i have heard that many of these border patrol dogs were barely trained, due to lack of money and time by the government. rather, it was a lot of propaganda: people thought they were so bad ass they wouldn't even think of running the border. hence, the dogs were bred to be sharp, meaning they would bark at a slight noise, or show "aggression" very easily. this was a deterrent of course. this was also the case with the east german "wall dogs" who patrolled the wall: their only job was to walk back and forth along the wall for their shifts. they did not need to be trained, except to walk and to show "aggression" at the slightest disturbance in their environment. when the wall fell in '89, many americans paid big money for many of these dogs, only to find out they had barely been trained and socialized at all, they were only good for walking the wall and being a presence, a deterrent.
this is just what i heard and is something to think about when talking about the "bad ass" border patrol programs of former ussr countries.

I know what it was. . .LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

The statement made just isn't accurate, that's the point I was getting at. The USSR lost the ability to exert influence over the Eastern European countries. . .or more accurately they decided to do so under the leadership of Mikhail Gorbachev, who BTW was probably one of the greatest men of our time. But the USSR did not disintegrate till well after the DDR and Czech dogs came flooding across the borders into Western Europe and into the US along with a bunch of people. It was the DDR that opened their borders and the unification process in Germany that began the deluge of East GSDs into the mix. The Western most East Block countries followed suit shortly thereafter.

The USSR survived till some time after that, I don't remember what year they officially broke up, but it was well after the borders across Europe were open.



The other comments you made about "wall dogs" and the like are mostly false, and certainly don't apply to the Czech dogs. For one, the Czech dogs were highly trained. The SP/PS was the strict certification program that they used. The police also had strict certification programs. . .and a good number of the z PS and Policia dogs were also ZVV titled. It's also pretty insulting to say that about the DDR dogs used by the border police in Berlin and along the DDR border as that most of them were SchH titled and raised/bred within the DDR system. . .which didn't exactly suck.

That's not to say you're not totally wrong about the dogs, I'm NOT a fan of DDR bloodlines. A good portion of them should have been sterilized.

But there is a clear distinction between the Czech dogs out of z PS and the DDR dogs. . .and the dogs bred at the different breeding stations outside of Czechoslovakia. We see that in the quality of dogs that come from Czech and z PS lines. The proof is there, there have been hundereds of capable Czech dogs in this country doing good police service work. A lot more than just walking a beat and growling at bad guys.

The reality of the dogs falls somewhere between the "wall dog" comments and the "FAMOUS BADAZZ BORDER PATROL DOGS" that are so well advertised in this country. LOL

They're just dogs, but the Czechs did a good job breeding working dogs and they had a good training program.

Robert Vancamp, is right I should have typed, With the fall of the Berlin Wall and end of the USSR and other geo-political forces(don't forget the Pope). But, I still think it took a couple of years for America to evaluate the DDR dogs before the influx of Czech dogs. I don't think the interest in the 1990's for Czech dogs was anything like it is now. When every Bubba Ho-Tep, wants a Czech GSD.

Thanks Robert for correcting my post. It was an early morning after a late night.

Robert,
Thanks for the insight, sounds like a very interesting background on these GSD, but I'll keep my yard open to mals only right now, but my eye is on the czech lines, I don't want to rush into one, might risk being labeled a "BUBBA HO-TEP" whatever that is! LOL!!

Hi VC, I'm trying to start educating myself about the different bloodlines out there, and I really value your input. What is it that causes you to feel lukewarm about DDR dogs? Are there any particular dogs within those bloodlines that you DO like, and what is it you think they contribute? Thanks!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I just wanted to point out that there already IS a Czech Shepherd, called the Chodsky Pes.

The GSD was bred up from this dog in the 1800s (Chodskys go back to at least the 1300s). Chodskys are smaller and more furry (which is why some GSD are furry)

I suspected this for a long time, and recently dug through the university archives (and this uni goes back several centuries!!!) and also talked to the pes and hund officials in person.

The Chodsky was practically extinct, in that it wasnt officially bred anymore, but then in 1984 they started to regenerate the breed.

its cool, because you dont have centuries of idiots backyard breeding to ruin a good line..

Not that GSD arent great (I had one for 10 years!)..

Just saying there already is a Czech Shepherd that looks like GSD somewhat but stands alone.

You can see pics of mine in the member section. Shes 6 mos now.



<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well I just read Scotts "bad ass" dog information. My father served in that just "walk an bark environment"... he trusted his dog, he was attacked almost every day he worked.. those "just look aggresive" dogS saved his life few times.
This info is what my father told me dozen of timeS: there was a fence, two fences... with electricity going through them.. high voltage.. he mentiond that they did clean up dead animals twice a week. And there were pack of dogs in between these two fences.... the guys who were on the patroll at night had to go to the Barracks and put on the "smelly clothes" my father used to say.. if they did not.. well they would have a pack of dogs attacking them..
These sector of the border could have been different. I dont know... but I was told.. nobody ever escaped.. they were found dead on a fence or torn by dogs....
This is a story from a guy who served there.. Is it true? I dont know but I dont think my dad would just make up a story.