VanCamp,

I saw you make the suggestion, that is why I didn't post untill later. You had it covered. We have to work with the dog and we haven't seen it work. I will tend to defer to someone that has. If the agitatior is as good as Micky thinks, then I will accept his judgement since he has seen the dog work.

Ya I see what you mean. We need to have live streaming digital video on this site. That would be way -F-ing cool! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Reading Mickey’s second post, it sounds like the helper corrected the dog with the stick at the wrong time. If the dog was just starting to become more confident in its aggression and nipped in and was corrected for that behavior with a hit on the nose, then the dog is going to be unsure after that. Then the dog was reinforced with a command by the handler instead of working the problem out for itself. Training for the schutzhund trial is not the same as working protection. If the prey/aggression and grip work is all correct then the problem must be the defense/aggression work. Work on the problems separately. I would try putting the dog on a post out somewhere by itself and having the helper work the dogs aggression without biting. Build the dogs confidence that it can win, even in defense/aggression and when alone. Introduce biting again when the dog is out at the end of the post strongly showing aggression. Don’t forget, it is a bitch………..

There are some great things that Alan pointed out. One being the dog could not be comfortable in aggression, and suggested a good way to help the animal, and two, this is a bitch.

I understand it is really difficult just buy these couple of post for you guys having a complete look at things.

I guess these methods described below here are of no use then;
What about letting her bite at different locations and different situations ? Like letting when helper is falling on the ground or laying on the ground and letting her bite when she is on a higher place level, letting her bite near a generator sound etc. AND of course letting her win each time.

So I will start this weekend like I was doing but don't do the persuit just bark and hold and the attack on long leash and if here grip is firm at attack let her win and stop. and Maybe start with some work on the bungee cord.

To clearify some things she is not of the kind of temper that by stick hits she bites harder (I which). Although with aggitation she gets really pissed and has firm grip, I'm not sure if this is still the case when it's handler is not arround.I know this because we have one 12m old male GSD and this one has no brakes in the persuit and with the stick he gets a firmer grip.

Also the reason why our helper gave this correction is because after the out on a persuit she nipped in(bad habbit she is starting to have) while I was still 5 meters or so from the dog. And she didn't seem to have much trouble with it I think. Although she got hit on the noose quite hard I think and screemed little she went right back at work after she looked at me where I gave the command RIVIER again and she started barking nice and close at the helper. Where at that moment she got rewarded by the helper.
And it is things like this that makes ME think that it's not a dog with weak nerves. Or I'm I wrong here.

And talking about handler support. If I track with her which she is starting to do great btw. The more I talk to her the worse her tracking goes. I starting to find out the less I say during tracking (once in a while I have to give her the AF=DOWN to get her down faster) the better she tracks. But then again she still is on the long leash and feels support that way.
Greeting and thanks

Letting her bite at other locations is not going to hurt her, but you really need to go back to basics and back-up a little with your bitch. You most likely have a nice working female, but need a little help to polish up your performance as a team. What bloodlines is this bitch from?
I noticed on another post with your bitch you requested some info on Flinks. The tape is Training Grip and Focus with Benhard Flinks. This video teaches you his foundation training system. Checks Ed web page for more details. If you think a little you will see how the training he does with the ball will spill into other areas of the dogs work. you are lucky to be so close to a good trainer/coach like Flinks. I think Ed has a phone number for him also on his web page, since you got no results e-mailinng him. As i have learned a great coach is the diffrence between a V and a G.

The bloodlines are not very special although it is mostly all DDR lines some studs I found on the internet are Dom vom Haus Iris and Dom vom Rolandsteich and Cassy Schieferschloss. If you want to see some picture go to http://www.kringgroepantwerpen.tk enter and go to the photo setion and look for Zhilla.

The main thing I think Flinks would be interesting for me is not because using the ball drive which I use already but on calming the grip. As I mentioned already she chews on here ball, chews on here apport. And although she doesn´t chew on the prey I had and some times still have trouble her coming back to me when she has the prey. I used to have this problem before to with the ball but this has been resolved now. Now I´m not sure if this has something to do with her not biting full grip away from me.
I looked a little more closely and talked with my helper about this and it seems during PERSUIT she is full grip without leash or not. But it is after she has to OUT when helper starts to move again that she doesn´t grip fully again. On long leash this is better.

Here is a little update for those of you interested.

Up till now the problem seems to be resolved. What we did is do a couple of persuits on a long leash, work little on the bungee AND we went to an other club with also a great helper and did some protection work there.
And funny thing is and this was completely the adverce I though what would happen. By going to a different club with different helper her grip stayed firm, actually I though this would worsen her grip but no on the contrary her grip was even better. Don´t ask me why because I don´t know.
The only problem I´m still having is she is still braking remarkably during the courage test.
She starts off quick brakes enormous and then bites. If anyone has some tricks to train this to stop the braking. Also as I mentioned before the speed for the persuit is not super eather although we trained a little on this by reducing the distance dog helper and it is getting little better for the persuit. But the courage test still is the same. To be honest we still didn´t tryed many things yet for this. We tried on the long leash but this seems more bother the dog than something else.
I thank you in advance

I'm glad that the new helper was better for your training.

I going to ask my grandpop how to improve the courage test in your situation. I hate to use the board cliche, but it seems to be that your dog has some nerve issues and may not be ready for a monster courage test yet. Work with the new helper and try to build confidence by working the courage test as more of a prey game. Then gradually do more intimidating charges. Start by having the helper run, NOT directly at the dog, but at an angle. Have the helper give a little fight and slip the sleeve. Work slowly until the helper is charging directly at your dog screaming like a banshee. I don't know if this will help much, but I'd try it. It is hard to say without seeing the dog in action. (We need to get Ed working on that live streaming digital video.) The bungee work should help in this department also, by reinforcing the deep bite and penetrating attack. Try not to push too much pressure on the bitch.

Am I the only one who caught that? Who is your Grandpop? Don't tell me there is another Vancamp out there in the protection arena.