Good grief. It's a video of a SPORT folks. Ring is a SPORT. The emphasis in Ring is on PRECISION CONTROL of the dog, just as it is in Mondio, just as it is in Schutzhund.

The decoys are under RULES of what they can and cannot do to a dog. FR is NOT a test for the real world, neither is Mondio, neither is Schutzhund.

Some dogs in the sports would do just fine in the real world, some would not. A LOT of dogs that are trained for the real world don't do so well there either.

Know what you are seeing, and the context in which you are seeing it before you criticize. Want to take a 'real' bite from Jeff's dog on the upper thigh? Not me, brother. Been to the hospital enough in my life.

The dogs I train for sport, I keep it a game to them. I don't let them take it personally. You can charge them or drop a brick on their heads...they think it's all part of the game. I need POINTS from them, not true aggression.

The dogs I train for other venues are totally different when engaged (or enraged?). I'm relatively sure that other trainers that work in different venues will tell the same tale.

Of course, that's just my opinion....I could be wrong <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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That's no joke Jeff. My dog tore a decoys Achilles tendon on Thursday. He will be out of commission for a few months. He's got surgery an <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />d a hard cast.

Damn ankle biters <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hiya, Scott!

Scott, I'll be in FLA next weekend at the trial. Are you going to be there?

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but in the various dog sports, there is no real aggression from the decoy directed towards the dog.

Now there is a man who has not had the pleasure of seeing an ASR trial. You talk about fighting for real. In ASR we don't wear huge bulky suits, because we want the dog to feel the person he is biting and know he is biting the man, also, ASR decoys are trained to a very strict standard, very strict. Entry level decoying is just to see if your dog is ready for further training, Level 1 gets crazy, Level 2 and 3 is wide open, If I get a dog in level 2 building, and any of the other exercises for that matter, if a dog could talk I'd bet the farm that he will come back to you breathing hard with his toungue hanging out saying, man, when is this going to be over, that damn SOB is a demented psycoPath!! Your dog will be on the loosing end of the engagement for the duration, the test is to see if he has what it takes to keep bringing the fight. Your dog will come as close to thinking he is fighting for his life and yours as can possibly take place without it being an actual engagement where the decoy is getting bit for real. Out of respect for the person I'm about to talk about, I will not mention the sport nor person, but I worked a dog this weekend that titled in a very, very well respected around the world sport, and this dog went far in it, and also titled out in another PP venue. This dog was slated to blow through ASR entry level and then goto level 1, We never got pass the first exercise in the ASR entry level, this dog had been worked offline from it's program's norm and was suppose to have had alot of pressure put on him, but was unable to handle ASR entry level pressure. Now it's obvious by all the people titling in ASR this isn't some super 10trys to atleast get going program, but, as you can see it's no joke, and by the time your dog reaches upper levels, he will think he is in a fight in the pits of hell. It's becoming more and more evident to me through my travels that there is what people think is pressure, and then there is real pressure, and I do believe 85-90% (which is more than enough) can be reproduced in an trial setting, particularly an ASR field (in the upper levels).

As was said before, I think the videos were great. That depicted a sport, not PP or foundation police k9 training program. Also, to say they decoy should have charged the dog is jumping to a ridiculous conclusion, the clips I'm sure where of particular exercises, and perhaps that exercise didn't call for a charging but a fleeing. Almost all programs has a fleeing attack, it tests the dogs willingness to chase down prey. There are some dogs that have been worked so hard in defense, they will not attempt to chase down anything and have an engagement, an exercise will show that. Relax enjoy the vid and remember the different venues goals and perspectives, every program is not suppose to train and test SWAT dogs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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Scott, I'll be in FLA next weekend at the trial. Are you going to be there?

I'm sure as hell going to try, my brother. I'll be on the road Tues-Thursday. If I get back in time, and I'm not wiped out, I'll be there for the weekend.

I should have put more smileys on my post, sorry if I offended anybody, please don't take me serious, I was just playing with Jeff, cuz he had always poking at Schutzhund, maybe I poked him to hard and he went into defensive drive. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

That was a good one!

Jeff O. or any of the other ring aficionados... What’s the purpose of all of the spinning the decoy does after the dog is on the bite? Is it some sort of grip test or is it designed to show weaknesses if the dog is uncomfortable being off his feet?

I really enjoyed the video!

I am thinking the suit is really thin and that is an awfull spot to get bit. spinning keeps the dog from biting in and making it really painful. I have done the spin myself. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It also may have been some weakness the decoy was trying to capitalize on.

Hey Jeff,

Watch a Malinois Korung if you want to see a dog get tested. They use a sleeve and bitesuit. Oh and some of the dogs are Schutzhund, IPO Ring etc. I have seen IPO dogs get Koer 3 and some ring dogs get ran. So why do you cut down the Schutzhund dogs?

Have you heard of Achan vom Greifenring? IPO 3 Koer 3? How many ring dogs are Koer 3, one?

Its all about the heart of the dog not the sport the dog is titled in.