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He has the prong collar and responds better to a firm correction with that then he ever did with the e-collar.

Both tools have their place, I am a huge fan of the e-collar, but for an aggressive unpredictable dog I wouldn't even consider anything other than a prong - dogs are able to ignore e-collars if they want to be really stubborn, but it's difficult to ignore your head being jerked away from a distraction with a prong collar and a leash. I've recently started working my dog on a prong again to "fine tune" his obedience - I liked the e-collar to get him to where he is now, however he is more than capable of ignoring the stim if he decides something else is more interesting, but there's no way to ignore a prong <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for finding a good trainer in your area - know the general technique you like using on your dog and gain some understanding of the different training tools and methods around before going to a trainer - I went to a trainer once, he unintentionally taught me that I could do a better job on my dog without a trainers help lol. I disregard just about every method, technique, philosophy and training tool that he taught me. This site is an awesome resource for learning alot of the do's and don'ts, but going out and seeing what your dog responds to the best is the only real way to learn.

Mike, I know just what you are taking about. We bought the collar because this dog (Ozzy) has an intense drive to run and when he runs he runs fast and far. He has been picked up 10 miles away before in just a half a days time.

As soon as the dog tried to run we would call him... and if he didn't come we would zap him. It had absolutely no effect what-so-ever. He would simply run out of range. One day I was on a dead run 20 paces behind him and had the collar to the max... zapping the crap out of him and he never flinched. However, when he was in the house, if we just touched the warning tone (no stim) he would shake all over a coward like we had just beat him senseless... on just a warning tone.

Drive is definitely a factor. We still have the collar and may break it out someday and give it a second try… but right now I am seeing some promising results with the prong. Hopefully we can get the biting under control… Sad to say, but his future depends on it.

You say the dog was responding better to the prong than the electric collar.. are you sure the probes were making contact with the dog's skin through all that shiba fur? By no means am I an expert with the ecollar, but I remember some past posts where probes not making contact through thicker fur was a problem.

You know Dianna, I never even thought of that. That is a definite possibility. He does have very thick fur. Sometimes the simplest things can make such a difference. I will have to look into that.

Thanks for a very valuable tip.

I posted that thread about the probes not making contact <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> My boy either would ignore the collar entirely and I would see no physical evidence that it was even doing anything, or he would JUMP like he got 1000v sent thru his spine because it turns out the probes were arcing and sending a high level stim to him - higher than the highest setting on the collar no doubt. Once I got the fur penetrating tips I see that all it does is spasm the muscle next to his neck, I can clearly visually see this - but if you put it on higher stim to really snap him out of a heavy distraction, either he can still ignore it, or after 3 or 4 seconds of ignoring me he sits down and involuntarily starts scratching at his neck - but as soon as I let off, he does what he was just told to do. That's kinda why I don't like the collar for some things, either he can ignore it (not saying he usually does, he is just capable of doing so if he chose to), or he ignores ME because he has to sit down to scratch at it. The response isnt "instant" so it's not building his speed or anything. Patrick Murray taught me the trick to teach "down" by stepping on the lead with a prong standing next to the dog - my boy "downs" much faster now than waiting for him to respond to stim. With stim he almost looks like he wants to say "ugh, ok, fine, you want me to lay down? ill lay down". Like I said, I am very pro-ecollar, it's helped my dog learn ALOT of things that I failed to teach him with a choker without having to jerk him around, especially Heel, I thought he'd NEVER catch on, motivational heeling was a totally failed concept on him and the choker I was told to use originally was damaging the bond I had with my dog, but I really like the prong for finishing off the rough edges and being able to get that instant reaction.