Milt,

No. Nothing but fresh air and clean water.

I know how drastic this all must sound to some.

It is my contention that if this dog has a problem digesting food, then his entire alimentary canal is likely to be a toxic waste land. This will be the cause of more problems than you can count. The toxin level in the blood eventually will get so high from this that all kinds of new problems will crop up. Most of these problems will look like "allergies" to our eyes. By fasting, the entire alimentary canal is swept clean, the bloodstream is thoroughly purified of toxins, and many damaged cells are repaired. There is no other way to do this being put forward by anyone anywhere. At the same time, there is nothing that would benifit this animal more in my opinion. At the very least I believe this treatment will take the animal back to a time when he was better able to deal with these problems of his, and only in a matter of a few days.

Anytime I see an animal who is licking or scratching constantly, I take it as a sign that the body is so over-run with toxins that it is now purging these toxins through the skin. This happens when the normal toxin disposal systems simply have too much on their plate (so to speak). Let the body catch up with its original plan for toxin disposal and these signs of "toxic overload" will disappear. Do not be surprised when the "stiffness" disappears as well, for this technique is borderline magical, and as I mentioned before, will reach down into every cell and tissue in the body.

Pete

I would be very, very careful about fasting an eight year old dog for more than a 24 hour period, especially if the dog already has problems with the pancreas. The pancreas is a gland that controls and produces digestive enzymes and the hormone insulin. Pancreatitis describes the disorder of the pancreas, due to many factors, over or under producing these enzymes and hormones. And also, in the case of over prodcution the enzymes begin to act on the pancreas itself and break down tissues. This results in inflamation and pain.

To alter a set pattern of feeding could cause the pancreas to begin to increase or decrease enzyme and hormone production. That may negate the effects of the medication that you are already giving your dog that helps regulate production and secretion of these enzymes and hormones.

I am not saying that fasting won't help the dog de-toxify it's system. There is a lot of proof of the positive effects of fasting. All I am saying is that in light of the pancreatitis you may want to think about it or get a vets opinion.

Dear VanCamp <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ,

There are potential dangers in all drugs and remedies.
The ones that vets prescribe are certainly not immune to this by any means.

I know what most vets would say about this. They would say that I am psyco and they would have a long list of reasons why this is too dangerous and would not be effective.

I know because I have discussed it with a few people doctors and vets. My aunt is a vet and she fought me on this with every fiber of her education. I decided to put her bla bla bla aside and try it anyway. Now her education means diddly-squat to me. I would not be recomending this if I did not have first hand experience with it. When your vet starts rambling on about all of the dangers of this, be sure to ask him how much personal experience he has with it. I am always leery about discussing such matters (although it may seem otherwise). How do you think I would feel if something bad happened to Petes dog because of something that I said? I feel as sure about this as I can get or I would not have brought it up, and I would never bring it up if more vets knew how to do their friggen job in the first place. That completes my .02 on this topic.(for now)

Pete, from the bottom of my heart, the best of luck in whatever you decide to do...

Interesting subject. I have NO experience concerning this subject. In my opinion there seems to be some truth in all of the posts I've read. Which one is more correct is the million dollar question. I certainly do not question Jasons personal experience using this method to cure his dogs problems. I do however think that the following quote by VanCamp makes total sense too.

VanCamp says: To alter a set pattern of feeding could cause the pancreas to begin to increase or decrease enzyme and hormone production.

Just my opinion.

I hear you on that vet thing Jason, trust me on that one. All I'm saying is you might want to discuss the use of the medication and what may or may not happen if Fido goes on a 2-3 day fast. OF COURSE the vet is not going to be very receptive to the idea. The whole natural approach is foreign to 99% of these jokers.

What you would have to do is pose it to your vet like this. "I am going to fast my dog. I have done a lot of research about it and I have chosed to do it. I have a question for you. Will there be any negative effects of doing this considering that Fido has pancreatitis and is on medication?" There are some vets, with any luck Pete has one, that will give a pretty honest answer about the specific question.

Notice, my friend, I didn't say don't do it. Just be careful.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hi guys,

Well, I couldn't stay away for very long.
VanCamp has raised some good points. I cannot address them in all honesty but I ask you to consider this.

The pancreas was not intended to be working overtime by constantly producing the enzymes required to digest enzyme-less foods (kibble). The accumulated effects of this will balloon up the pancreas way beyond its normal size and it will certainly not be able to function properly either. (one of the things leading eventually to the kinds of problems that we are talking about here). I believe that how long it takes for the effects of this to become visible is a factor of genetics. (some can take it for longer than others)

I did not bring this up before because I did not want to get anyones hopes up too high and results will always vary. The first time I ever fasted a dog it was a dog that sounds "spooky" similar to Petes. He was a 7 year old english mastiff named Nigel. He was never what you would call a "chow hound" and I had him ever since he was a pup. As he got older, things got worse, until I would put his food before him and he would look up at me as if it was a bowl full of shit. I tried everything from changing foods to pouring chicken broth over his food etc,etc. Sooner or later he would be right back to where he was again, looking up at me as if I were trying to poison him (it looked like it hurt him to eat).
I never had his hips tested but at 7 years his joints seemed to tighten up and he was obviously in a lot of pain. This in combination with the food thing was the "final straw"

I had just recently fasted for the first time myself and was convinced that this was a "cure all". This is when I ran all of this by aunt betty (the vet) and she told me I was crazy etc.

Well, guess what happened....
After a two day fast, Nigel was running around like he hadn't in a long time. He was going through his kibble, all week long, like it was going out of style. This was the same food that he wouldn't/couldn't eat before! I couldn't believe my eyes. He now lives with my ex-girlfriend, still on kibble, and fast's regularly. Nigel is over 12 years old now and he still acts like a puppy in all regards.

Hhhmmmmmmmmmmm. . .

Fasting does allow the body to rid itself of toxins and to clean out the digestive tract. I have had dogs do their own fast for 3 days, but I have not fasted a dog purposely for 3 days. 8 yrs. of age is getting to a more sensitive time as well for a fast. Adding to it a dog that has pancreas problems and.....I would be careful.

As far as itching goes. It can be diet, vaccine and pain related. Has this dog had any vaccines in the last 4-6 months?

My 'guess' is that it could be pain related. But, if it did start when you changed your dogs food....then you might want to look at that as well.

If eating raw meat has been hard for this dog, you might want to first start by feeding it cooked meat and veggies. This is much easier on the digestive tract. Not ideal but a big step better than kibble. I would start real simple and then gradually add things.

As far as pain goes. I don't think we have talked much about homeopathy. I have used this several times on my dogs. It has eased the pain in my arthritic 11 yr. old. He is more active since the remedy. I have also used it on a dog with a digestive upset. The regular vet wanted to use antibitotics but I did not. I went to my homeopath , she gave him a remedy and by the next day he was back to his normal self, with good stools and a great appetite.

I also used it with a female that was very itchy, nipples started to turn black, her ears started to turn black and one started to tip down. She had a hard experience with her last pregnancy and had to be one steriods, antibiotics, etc. The problems with the itching and everything else started several months after the litter was weaned and gone. (her hair also never grew back on her stomach). The regular vet did not have much to help her. (besides more steriods). I took her to the homeopath. She has had 2 remedies given and a supplement added to her food. (liquid that helps boost the immune system). It has been close to a year now, but her hair is all grown back, her skin is no longer black and her ear is clear and almost all the way back up. (she also does not itch anymore).

I would be the first to say that I don't necessarily understand all the theory behind homeopathy, but I have had some very good experiences with it. Might be something you want to try.

I'd like to thank everybody again for their well-considered advice.

I think what I'm going to do is to try to distill the advice into its essence, which is to try my dog on a fast but to limit the length of the fast due to his age and health condition (especially the pancreatitis). I'm sure that fasting him for 24 to 36 hours cannot hurt.

I haven't figured out yet where I come down on the veterinary medicine issue. Although I don't think the veterinary industry is nearly as corrupt as American medicine with its unholy trinity of insurance companies/HMOs/pharmaceutical manufacturers, I have long noted that most veterinarians have lucrative tie-ins with drug and food purveyors. At the same time, unlike some American doctors, I like to believe that the average vet has the best interests of animals in mind. I have definitely known a few who do.

My own suspicion is that the best remedies for our animals are probably based on a combination of both homeopathic and pharmaceutical methods. I wouldn't personally want to close my mind to either approach.

Again, I very much value everyone's opinion here and I appreciate the time you've all taken to help me with my problem.

Pete Felknor

To Vancamp
I have a small mixed breed dog that was constantly licking, scratching, and even had raw spots. I had changed from Purina One Lamb and Rice to Turkey reduced calories and she went crazy from lack of fat in the food. I bought a powder called the Missing Link -Omega 3 basic. Her hair is getting very soft with moisture and she isn't digging anymore. I also give this to my GS and it had helped her hair, skin and her digestive problems. She would get sick if she ate outside things she found or even if I changed her food. She has done wonderful with this and I have only been feeding this for about 3 weeks. My little dog has arthritis in her back legs. I gave her meds from vet and it didn't touch it. She could hardly get up at night and now you wouldn't even know she has a problem. She runs around all day like a young dog. I bought Arthramine Advanced from a catalogue with Glucosamine HCI, Vitamin C, Manganese, Omega 3 Fatty Acids and another pill MSM Tabs. The cost was very little compared to the pills I got from the vet and the results is wonderful.
Karen Taylor