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... Scott Z: Why does one have to physically hurt their pup at any age? There is no reason at all that there has to be pain involved to train the pup...

Giving a dog a physical correction and actually "hurting" a dog are NOT the same thing (typical "touchy-feely" person)

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...Training without any dstractions...ya right...where is there no distractions. At home there is always the wild animal even if the others are still in the house. The phone or toy in the house. Traffic when walking. Distractions are a part of life that one cannot get away from....

Amazing how EVERY one of us that responded to your questions manage to find places with no distractions to train. In fact, I did so just today. Large park with ZERO distractions.

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... Scott Z... a little suprised to see me write back to responces? What shocked with the dolls? Thats ok. Just shows how close minded people are. Guess you feel safe in your little bubble you call your life...

Actually, YOU came here for advice, not me. You got sound, solid, and PROVEN advice from many trainers, a number of whom are considered world class at breeding, raising, training and competing with dogs at the International level. You are an amatuer, beginner and frankly, extremely ignorant about ANY of those subjects. And while that in and of itself is not a bad thing (we all had to start somewhere), you didn't get the touchy-feeley, "it's gonna be okay" pat on the back answers to the questions you posed, so you decided to leave. So, who REALLY is the close-minded person here?

Why am I even bothering to answering this?

(Shakes head)

Gina,
Look.
I've read your website at http://littlepeanursery.tripod.com/labrdogskennel.html and I can understand your pain in life.
But treating dogs as your child substitute is not a good form of dog ownership. It borders just on the cutting edge of being unhealthy from a Psychiatric standpoint and it is completely unrealistic.
You would benefit greatly from therapy.

And please...give up any idea of being a breeder. You certainly don't know enough to pursue this endeavor.

Gina:
"Enough said...and after this I will not be back to a group of nuts that feel that because someone doesn't agree with treatment of animals as I do, they have to call them nuts. Who really is nuts?"


I think that anybody that reads your website will be able to answer that question with no problem....

I simply must comment. This is very interesting since I too have had to deal with the reality that my dog is not doing what he should be doing now because of me, (handler error) not because he is a bad dog.
I have only recently started reading this site and asking for advice, and am not only pleased with the expertise but extremely appreciative of the apparent comradery within the ranks of GSD owners.
KEEP UP the good work guys <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Gina, after reviewing your web site, I am really more concerned about you than I am your "kids", dogs. Please if you get nothing more from these conversations, don't take it personal and get some real help for yourself, if you are not healthy your "kids", dogs will not be healthy.

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....Connie S. The pups all know who the "pack" leader is and where each of them rank. there is NO issues with that. Just as I stated before even children are taught who to respect as the "pack" leader. Just a little something to think about. Children were classified as property, animals when the laws were created. The first abuse case went back to laws about abusing your animals your property. So where do kids really rank? no different than an animal so why can't the sam child laws pertain to animals now. Would you physically restrain and disapline a child? Then Don't do it to a pup.

Again: Dogs are not humans. You insist on making comparisons and rules equating them.

Yes, they are animals.....so are we. But they are a different species, and people who pretend they are humans and not what they really are do them no service.

Do you know any pack theory? Kids (children) do NOT rank on the same level as the dog. Saying that is opening a door to huge potential problems.

I feel sorry for dogs whose owners don't think that being a dog is "good enough" -- that they must fulfill some human need to have humanistic demeanor or characteristics.

I don't hurt my dogs. I correct them just as their mothers did (if necessary), and I use praise and treats like crazy.

I also manage to find spots with no distractions for beginning training (before going on to training with distractions), and I live in a small city......not suburbs or farmland. I don't believe that no spot is available.

My dogs are so well-loved and so well-cared-for and so carefully fed that I am proud of their care in every way. And I do NOT ask them to be other than what they are, which is DOGS. They have the security of knowing their status in the pack (which is my household, and I don't need quotes around it), and they take obvious pride and pleasure in "getting it" in their training.

If you left out all references to human childcare, your statements and suppositions might start to make some sense. And those references do not belong in a discussion about dog training!

I hope that you can understand that asking a dog to be a human is the opposite of fulfilling the dog.

The people who have responded to you have happy and mannered and well-cared-for DOGS. They are experienced, and they are, each and every one, horrified by animal abuse.

It seems so very basic to understand that dogs aren't people; why is it not enough for you that be what they are?

What's most interesting is that Gina has not responded one lick to the amazing amount of constructive advice she had received in this thread.

It's pretty funny that while she thinks everyone here wants her to harm her dogs in some way, it's HER dog who is afraid with his ears pinned back in class. Who's the one torturing dogs in this scenario?

Poor things are already being called "breeders" when they aren't even 6mos old yet. What a frigging nightmare! I am sure that many of us have acquired puppies hoping for their potential to emerge as worthy contributors to their prospective breeds. Yet one can only HOPE, not PLAN, until the adult dog emerges. Conformation, temperament, soundness (both mental and physical)...all sorts of things that can't be known for sure for quite some time.

In an attempt to add something constructive, most modern-day homes have things called bathrooms. If kept neat and clean, these are wonderful, small, controlled, distraction-free environments...perfect places to start puppies on simple behaviors.

T

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.....In an attempt to add something constructive, most modern-day homes have things called bathrooms. If kept neat and clean, these are wonderful, small, controlled, distraction-free environments...perfect places to start puppies on simple behaviors.T

Yes to everything you wrote........but <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> to this idea! I never thought of that for beginning baby-steps of obedience! I was going to parks in off-hours or my own yard at times when there were no cars going by. Good emergency substitute!!!!

Also to be constructive, the dogs not being worked can be placed in crates. Please don't see them as "jails." If they were indeed canine prisons, then bedrooms and cribs for kids would also be such! If kept positive, dogs learn to see their crates as private suites. Each dog will be able to nap, relax, and chew on something nice while you work with a dog in another room, free and clear of distractions without having to worry about who's getting into what. Dogs sleep a great deal; it'd be like putting a baby into a crib to let him calm down and catch a nap. If your bathroom is too small to work in, try a spare bedroom once the rest of the pack is crated up.

As to the touchier subject, everyone else had some excellent things to say. Just remember that dogs can offer us what no other creature can. The same goes for a kid. The dog cannot offer what a kid can, likewise a kid cannot give what a dog is able to. You WILL run into trouble when you try to make something into what it is not.

Take heed of what was said here, and you'll find that you'll have a better relationship with your dogs (and vice versa) when you see them and love them for what they are.

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Poor things are already being called "breeders" when they aren't even 6mos old yet. What a frigging nightmare!

soundness (both mental and physical)...all sorts of things that can't be known for sure for quite some time.

She`s already discovered that one of her "breeders" has a genetic problem with it`s eyes. People like her are why the breed has an eye problem in the first place. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Just had to vent a little on that.Back to dog training: Using the bathroom is a neat idea. I normally just write down the times I find the soccer, football, etc. teams in the park and use that as a guide for when I go. Fields at large schools also work pretty well and some are even fenced. I use a fenced little league field to let our dogs burn off some energy during the summer. Way back to the original topic: Posting how you originally taught the sit might help.