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Everyone oohs and ahhs at the dog going 30mph into a decoy, and his body whipping around and snapping with the momentum of the impact. That is seriously more physical than being rolled around on the grass and straddled.

But he isn't just being rolled around on the grass and straddled. He's being hauled up into the air by his collar and thrown to the ground, then rolled around and straddled. Did you watch the video without the music, where you could hear the dog (and the trainer in the background saying "hold him down, hold him down!" ? Again, I say a leash correction with a training collar would have been much more effective.

Upon checking further the issue was that the K9 would bite the handler when he drew his gun . From what I saw the 1 most in danger of getting hurt was the handler .

A retired K9 handler told me a story about when he had taught a dog to go after a gun. The idea I guess was to be able to disarm someone. He did this basicly like you do the forced retrieve and used a plastic toy gun. The dog learned the faster that he got the gun the quicker the pressure was released. He realized he had a problem when one night he had to draw his weapon and the dog went nuts trying to take his gun from him.

We have noticed that some Mals get stimulated by certain noises. It triggers aggression or excitement in the dog which can turn into redirected aggression.

We have a 8 month old female Mal that we are raising in the house - when the sparker goes off for the automatic ignition on the gas stove it triggers something in her and if nothandled correctly we see where she could become aggitated and it could escalate with time.

The same thing can happen with service dogs and gun fire - this can happen as a result of mistakes made in training but it can also be some wierd thing in the dogs head. The DVD Kevin and I did 16 or 17 years ago on tactical training for police service dogs (which we both agree needs to be redone) demonstrates differant handlers taking positions of cover behind a squad car and firing their weapons - which resulted in the dogs trying to bite the handler - obviously a need for more trianing.

I felt bad for this guy in the video. It was obvious he needed training help. An unfortunate situation. Alpha rolls are a dangerous dangerous thing to do. One mistake with the wrong dog and you will have a trip to the emergency room. There are much better ways.

Will,
Can you link to the video without music?

I'm not Will, but here's the link to the page that has both of the videos on it:

http://saybia.zippyvideos.com/gallery.z

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Again, I say a leash correction with a training collar would have been much more effective.

If you have a dog that is gun fire aggresive and you get in a stiuation where you have to use your gun a simple leash correction is not gonna do it!!! You have to "fix" the problem in training and make sure you don't run across this situation. It can come down to life or death.

I think that the descision to "retire" both the handler and the dog was the right one. Can you believe the temper tantrum?... swearing at the dog...hes a real pro! That dog made a good call in not obeying this idiot. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I agree , a leash correction in this case would usually only work a dog like that up even more . For a correction to work at all in this situation it would have to have been 1 h*!! of a leash correction .

I've had this problem with my first K9 . After a week long SWAT seminar involving too much gunfire coupled with apprehension work , my very strong dog , trained to be tolerant to gunfire began to go for my gun when I drew it .

I took a step back in my training and worked for several weeks on my basic gunfire tolerance training that I had originaly started him off on . Starting with .22 cal. blanks at a distance then working the .22 cal. blanks in closer and closer to us once he was showing he could remain calm . I then continued that routine working my way up from stronger .38 blanks , .40 cal , all the way up to 12 gauge rounds . I varied my rewards for calm behavior from calm praise , good game of tug or fetch and sometimes food .

While doing this I also desensitized my partner to me drawing my gun . I just continually drew my gun around him . I started of doing it in a calm slow manner then worked my way back up to where he had been showing aggression . If he showed any agression or stress during this progression I just backed up until he consistantly calmer and then progressed from there .

Towards the end I began drawing and firing with him by my side . I again worked my way up from .22's to bigger guns . Finally I tested him in a realife type gunfire situation to make sure he was responding to training .

I've seen too many trainers try to control dogs around gunfire by complusion and I have not seen it to be as effective as desensitizing K9's to gunfire where they really think it's no big deal and can actually lead to something pleasurable or fun for them .

This i sNOT good training but the dog isn't being injured. he'd feel more from that collar if he was launching himself against it on a tie out.
The dog is simply not impressed. For what reasons??? It would only be specualtion.
The handler needed help in how to deal with this situation. He got bad advice, ain't a handler anymore and the dog was retired, most likely due to the bad PR.
Lets not get stupid in viewing a vid clip.
I'll quote a General from the Katrina catastrophe when the press corps couldn't move on to a new problem, "lets not get stuck on stupid......your stuck on stupid"
No matter what it looks like the dog isn't being "abused" he simply tolerates the physical stuff and moves on to what is satisfying.

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Everyone oohs and ahhs at the dog going 30mph into a decoy, and his body whipping around and snapping with the momentum of the impact. That is seriously more physical than being rolled around on the grass and straddled.

But he isn't just being rolled around on the grass and straddled. He's being hauled up into the air by his collar and thrown to the ground, then rolled around and straddled. Did you watch the video without the music, where you could hear the dog (and the trainer in the background saying "hold him down, hold him down!" ? Again, I say a leash correction with a training collar would have been much more effective.