I know you asked Will, but I'll answer.... Because people want to kill him. Why do I want a PPD? becuase I can't see the front post anymore

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Dennis! I wanted to say that so bad, but you just never know who will think it's funny and who won't! So thanks. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> In all seriousness, however, I think anyone in Will's position has good reason-high profile, exposure, valuables (dogs), etc. There are plenty of reasons a nutcase would target Will. Who knows, perhaps he's even annoyed someone in the distant past.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well, I agree with you to a point Will. I don't know how to explain it very well, so let me give you an example...

Hypothetically... you have a 3 year old son, your sons friend comes over to play, your dog is trained to defend your family members when they are assaulted, the kids get into an argument over the Mr Potatohead, there's a dispute about which arm would make a better nose, things get violent, the 3 year old throws Mr Potatohead at your son and punches him in the nose. How does your dog react? OK lets say your dog doesn't deploy himself onto the 3 year old but stands behind the baby gate growling and getting fired up because for some reason he's not doing his job defending your son like he's trained to do. Perhaps you've got him trained to not attack people under 4ft tall (so midgets are safe in your home <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Either way, that child is at risk if for some reason your dog reacts negatively to it. The solution? Put him up in the kennel till the guest leaves because you can't tell a 3 year old "hey the dogs gonna kill you if you hit my son" because that piece of information flies right out the window when he hears Mr Potatohead's right arm is a better nose than his left!

Now lets say you're in the kitchen, your dog's in the kennel, your kids are playing in the living room... apparently you're worth millions n this guy wants to kidnap your son and shoot you in the foot so you know he means business... you accidentally left your .45 on the bedside table... where's the dog? In the kennel. Why? Becaue the dog can't be trusted around children.

Now, perhaps your dog is absolutely 100% PERFECT around all children, your son can yank his ears and pull his tail and the dog doensn't do a damn thing about it, there's no risk to guests because your dog is so well trained and has such a stable temprement that it's a non-issue. Whoever busts into your house to kidnap you son is gonna think twice, your dog's gonna bite n disarm him while you run over to grab your .45, you shoot the guy until your clip's empty, bathe your dog because red isn't a good color for him, then call the cops at your leisure.

Scenario A is a dog that is too intense and too sharp to be ok in EVERY situation. Most situations the dog might be fine, but the dog does have a hair trigger so there's gonna be situations you can't put your dog in, which means the dog can't protect you 100% of the time UNLESS you specifically have a lifestyle that can accomodate a dog like this.

Scenario B is a dog who still has intensity, but is a little less sharp, a little less intense, not THE BEST, THE HARDEST, THE MOSTEST GOODEST DOG ON EARTH, but the dog gets the job done, the dog can live in the house, the dog is fine with any situation, period. There is no "well maybe I shouldn't take my dog here because if someone does something stupid, my dog's gonna kill them" type concerns, but overall you have better coverage because your dog can ALWAYS be there.

I'm not saying Dog A is better than Dog B, or that Dog B is better than Dog A, but Dog B is better suited to the lifestyle of someone that needs more stability in his dog than person with Dog A who is able to make reasonable changes to his lifestyle to make his dog accessible in any situation, but may not be 100% stable in an unpredictable, yet friendly situation. So Dog A would be a useless dog to Dog owner B, because Dog owner B would have to kennel the dog more frequently than Dog owner A.

Get what I'm saying? If the dog is matched to the owner and lifestyle then sure it's not a big deal, but if you error on the side of intensity and sharpness then the dog will end up being inaccessible more often than he is useful.

C'MON DENNIS!!! Lasix(sp) can fix that eyesight.

I think this was mentioned before, so I'll risk repeating it. Dogs are just another layer of defense and a very visable/audible one. I have three GSDs, I know they'll raise a ruckus if someone jumps the fence or tries to break in which will give me time to dial 357. Sharp dogs, good locks, and a large caliber weapon will satisfy the the security requirements of most everybody

Wow, Mike? Do you have a job? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Is there an award for longest posts? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Seriously, I see what both of you are saying, and to my uneducated eye, it doesn't even seem like you're disagreeing all that much. I think Mike is coming at it from a neighborhood/family perspective, and in his situation, that's appropriate for him to consider. Will, on the other hand, is speaking from experience in different types of PPDs, suited to vastly different purposes, and sees scenarios where it is possible to alter your life just enough to keep your dog where it needs to be (close by) and still prevent tragedies. Is this a correct summary, Gentlemen?

Will, I PM'd you last night, hit the wrong button, and lost it. So I'll ask it now: What, in your opinion, is the proper way to "train" a dog to behave around children/strangers and still maintain the level of sharpness/aggression necessary to work in a very serious situation? I need my dog primarily when I'm in my house. My situation is not such that I'm going to be assaulted in a parking lot in daylight. (I hope <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.

My dog is somewhat sharp, I would have to say, but not skittish and aggressive; as I said, children can come over, and he'll even enjoy the occasional game of tag...but-adult men are by far not his favorites. As of yet, only one has ever been able to pet him, and that's my father.

How do I maintain an amount of suspicion/territorial defense/protection drive while also maintaining civility (you know the kind I mean <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> with my neighbors? Should I correct him for streaking toward the fence at 150mph when one dad happens to lean over to tell their kid dinner's ready? He's not climbing the fence to rip their throats out (he's capable of climbing the fence), but he's telling them in no uncertain terms what may happen if they cross the line (figuratively and literally). He's also like this in the car. Quiet and calm in the drive-thru until the kid goes to hand me the bag and his fingers accidentally come 1/4 of an inch into the car. "Woof". That's enough to make the poor kid drop everything he's holding and wet his pants as an added bonus. He waits until someone has crossed a boundary; he watches very carefully, constantly. I think I might win that longest post award after all! Will, whaddya think? Correct him? Ignore him? Keep him more isolated?

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I think this was mentioned before, so I'll risk repeating it. Dogs are just another layer of defense and a very visable/audible one. I have three GSDs, I know they'll raise a ruckus if someone jumps the fence or tries to break in which will give me time to dial 357. Sharp dogs, good locks, and a large caliber weapon will satisfy the the security requirements of most everybody

Oh definately agreed there, I tell people the same thing. Honestly, i'm not "into" PPD training because I think someone's out to get me, or because I want to send my dog on people, it's simply because I enjoy doing the work. I consider a PPD a pet to some extent, I want to play with them, fetch, tug, etc. Bitework is something my dog enjoys and I enjoy doing with him and it interests me, so I go out and do it. My argument is simply that there is such a thing as a dog that is TOO intense to live in most peoples homes, even peoples homes who are committed to training and working with a dog responsibly. Will is obviously a very capable handler with a very nice dog, but that doesn't mean that I can go out and buy a super high drive intense dog and expect it to have the same temprement as Fetz with the same stability and reliability, AND expect the dog to be perfectly OK in situations I'd like to be able to take my dog into.

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Hypothetically... you have a 3 year old son, your sons friend comes over to play, your dog is trained to defend your family members when they are assaulted, the kids get into an argument over the Mr Potatohead, there's a dispute about which arm would make a better nose, things get violent, the 3 year old throws Mr Potatohead at your son and punches him in the nose. How does your dog react?

If you take 10 year old as son and 16 year old friends of the daughter that played to rough with the son. My dog simply warned them in such a way that 4 16 year old teenagers jumped as one behind my daughter. No biting only auditible warning.

Greetings

Johan

PS my son had a fit laughing at them

So what training differences would there be, then for a familt PPD? I suppose not training to a level of sharpness might be beneficial, even though you might lose a second or two of reaction time.

I have to believe there are differences in dog mentality / intelligence / intuition as well. Let's face it, some dogs are dumber than others.

But back to training, is it perhaps not better to command the dog to assist, rather than him making that decision? I mean, unless you are approached from behind and gagged, couldn't you just utter "help" or some better trigger word? So the dog doesn't do anything attack-wise unless told to so.Obviously I'm a novice, which is why I'm here asking.

Thanks for the excellent discussion also.

Ted

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So what training differences would there be, then for a familt PPD? I suppose not training to a level of sharpness might be beneficial, even though you might lose a second or two of reaction time.

I have to believe there are differences in dog mentality / intelligence / intuition as well. Let's face it, some dogs are dumber than others.

But back to training, is it perhaps not better to command the dog to assist, rather than him making that decision? I mean, unless you are approached from behind and gagged, couldn't you just utter "help" or some better trigger word? So the dog doesn't do anything attack-wise unless told to so.Obviously I'm a novice, which is why I'm here asking.

Thanks for the excellent discussion also.

Ted

My dog alerts on command based on either my body language, if I look at him then give someone a hard stare he fires up, or if I gasp/inhale quickly like "*gasp* someones at the door!", he has various triggers, some are very subtle.