I have a bitch with excellent prey drive. . .monster prey drive. If she is on a tie out and I throw her ball just past her, out of reach, she will strain against the leash for about two seconds then start barking and whining her head off as long as she can see the ball.

That seems to fly in the face of your sleeve on the ground theory Steve.


I think you should answer Richards last question. What are the motivations for a dog barking? If a dog is barking deep, with some tooth and hackle is it safe to say the dog is barking in defense drive?

Steve says that dogs do not bark in prey drive. They only bark in defense at the helper in the blind or through frustration that was trained into the dog. Is that what you are saying? Are you saying that the dog is unable to learn and never get over the original frustration? Are you saying its impossible for a dog to bark and be in prey drive at the same time?I could use frustration as a trump card like you are doing and say that prey drive is an emotion/desire and the only reason the dog runs in prey drive is because of the frustration/anxiety it feels over the prey item getting away because if it didnt feel the frustration/anxiety it would walk after the rabbit with no fear/anxiety of it leaving.That sounds ridiculouse but maybe its not. Why cant I say that prey drive is an emotion/desire and the chase is the action that leads to success, on that same token I could say that prey drive is an emotion and barking is the action that leads to success. Either way the dog remains in prey drive and does what is neccessary for success because prey drive is not an action but an emotion/desire.

I have a bitch with excellent prey drive. . .monster prey drive. If she is on a tie out and I throw her ball just past her, out of reach, she will strain against the leash for about two seconds then start barking and whining her head off as long as she can see the ball.

That is easy Einstien Camp. You say your bitch is tied out...hence she can't get the ball, hence frustration. Mabey we need to get your version of prey drive. Secondly, you can not judge theory with one dog. I have never seen your dog, so what you call monster prey drive, I or others may see as something else.


I think you should answer Richards last question. What are the motivations for a dog barking? If a dog is barking deep, with some tooth and hackle is it safe to say the dog is barking in defense drive?

Yes, I would say that that is a very accurate statement. Now, if the dog is barking deep with hackles up and with a loose line (I'm talking about the very first time the dog sees the situation) I would say that it is a little defense/avoidance.

Steve Cobb

I have followed this post for the last couple of days.

Are we now calling prey drive an emotion of a dog? Maybe I lost something in the interpretation. I for one feed my dogs live food. I can not remember them once barking when they either chased it or caught it or the time it ran behind the plywood. They just went after it until they caught the food.

My dog barks for a tennis ball like most dogs. For me, it is not the same drive or behaviour or emotion as when they chase prey animals. It is definately not with the same intensity as chasing prey. And yes, if I restrain my dogs from their prey they also bark, but this is more social than their prey drive overriding to flush out the food or frustration.

Just 2 cents

David Morris wrote: "Why cant I say that prey drive is an emotion/desire and the chase is the action that leads to success, on that same token I could say that prey drive is an emotion and barking is the action that leads to success. Either way the dog remains in prey drive and does what is neccessary for success because prey drive is not an action but an emotion/desire."


There you go, I can live with that. The base motivation for the dog is the prey drive. I would say that all the actions the dog takes to satisfy that drive (i.e. get the prey, animal or object doesn't make any difference) are "in prey drive". Sure barking is learned, but so is biting, so is running, so is chasing, so jumping, etc. The dog "learned" how to do all those things along the way. They are are instinctual behaviors that the dog will use to get success while working in a particular drive. (or being motivated to action by a particular drive)


So in reference to the H+B, I make it as simple as possible and use the correct terminology that has been use for years and years.

If the dog is barking, and it is obvious that the drive motivating the bark is defense, the dog is barking in defense drive.

If the dog is barking and it is obvious that the drive motivating the bark is prey drive. . .I say the dog is barking in prey.


Frustration isn't a motivation, frustration is the inability to satisfy the drive that is motivating the dog. If it is prey drive that is motivating the dog, and he is frustrated because he has reached a point where he can't get the prey item with his other learned tools, he starts to bark. The prey drive is still motivating the action and still the motivation for the bark.

Its that simple.

Feeding LIVE for dogs?


Ok......

LIVE?????????

Is that supposed to increase prey drive??

Sorry - I don't care HOW good this might be for my dog, I'm NOT doing it!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I feed BARF. Occasionaly I give my dogs live food. I do it so I can look at the drives without all the training that goes on. I did not have to teach them how to chase his prey, I guess prey was a pure instinct. The BARF diet has been pretty good for the dogs that we own. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

Originally posted by Randall Hoadley:
I did not have to teach them how to chase his prey, I guess prey was a pure instinct.

REALLY?!?!?!

Prior to releasing your live food, do you make sure to sprinkle it with vitamins and stuff their orifices with raw veggies <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ?

so is biting, so is running, so is chasing, so jumping, etc. The dog learned how to do all those things along the way

Hey Mr. Hoadley, did you have to put your puppies feet, one in front of the other until he learned how to run? Did you open his mouth and place his prey inside until he learned how to bite?

You guys are just grasping for straws. These statements are getting dumber and dumber.

Steve Cobb