At least Cesar isn't using treats to bribe dogs. He is teaching pack leadership. Most people do not realize this is the foundation to having a great dog. I think he's doing a good service even with the editing. I know lots of people who are not into dog training that are starting to change their ways because of his show.

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At least Cesar isn't using treats to bribe dogs. He is teaching pack leadership. Most people do not realize this is the foundation to having a great dog. I think he's doing a good service even with the editing. I know lots of people who are not into dog training that are starting to change their ways because of his show.

You can teach pack leadership and still use food and toy rewards. I see in another thread you want to teach a dog to go out, lay down, stay and then come back to you in a heel position? Good luck teaching that without "bribery". Pack leadership and rewards aren't even the same thing.

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.......You can teach pack leadership and still use food and toy rewards. I see in another thread you want to teach a dog to go out, lay down, stay and then come back to you in a heel position? Good luck teaching that without "bribery". Pack leadership and rewards aren't even the same thing.

What he said! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Vikki, you might want to read this whole thread:
http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4152075/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1
for a discussion on training treats. You'll see that many people who posted to that thread (and others) are *extremely* experienced and knowledgeable full-time, long-time, multi-titled trainers.

His show is on national television and he, or the powers that be, chose to edit and keep the transmitter hidden for a reason, ie. PETA, HSUS etc. IMO, you guys have way too much time on your hands to be emailing CM's producers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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His show is on national television and he, or the powers that be, chose to edit and keep the transmitter hidden for a reason, ie. PETA, HSUS etc. IMO, you guys have way too much time on your hands to be emailing CM's producers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He doesn't discuss the prong or the choker either -- he always uses whatever people own, why is the e-collar any different?

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His show is on national television and he, or the powers that be, chose to edit and keep the transmitter hidden for a reason, ie. PETA, HSUS etc. IMO, you guys have way too much time on your hands to be emailing CM's producers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He doesn't discuss the prong or the choker either -- he always uses whatever people own, why is the e-collar any different?

He has talked about using the choke collar on the show.

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IMO, you guys have way too much time on your hands to be emailing CM's producers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know that was said kiddingly, but I was the one who emailed (not his producers, but his own office; the producers responded), and I did want an answer. I give his DVD to extreme newby training clients who have never owned a dog or heard the term pack leader, and I give Ed's Basic Obedience to them as the next step up, after working with them.

To me, it's important that I have continued respect for both products and the people whose names are on them. And I do.

QUOTE: He doesn't discuss the prong or the choker either -- he always uses whatever people own, why is the e-collar any different? END

I'm sorry, Mike, I posted before my message was finished.....error. I was not disagreeing at all. He does use whatever the owners are using, generally, and has mentioned that fact (that he doesn't judge people's tools, last season). But I've already posted more than my share on this thread today! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I am adding this to the previous commentary because it appears that no one beside myself has actually had one on one training with Cesar or one of his disciples. I attended one of his seminars in LA and through that source found Cheri Lucas, who runs a Humane Society rescue in my area and has studied with Cesar for years. Cherie also gives seminars and these events are 1/2 seminar and 1/2 hands on, you and your dog applications of all that was discussed. These seminars and training sessions are not for the pros that frequent Ed's discussion group, but the are great for the average pet owner. The emphasis, for me was that I learned a lot about body language and how to be a leader of my pack. This technique is so visual that I find it hard to describe, but being calm assertive and always in charge, always first, instantly making corrections when an infraction has occured is the important part of what I came away with. Now this is probably just natural behavior for a lot of the discussion group, but it isn't for most of dog owning dummies. We did discuss collars and e-collars are approved with proper training. In the class we used choke collars or pinch collars depending on the owners choice. I know I have oversimplified what I experienced but I learned from this and I am a better dog owner as a result.

Naida

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I am adding this to the previous commentary because it appears that no one beside myself has actually had one on one training with Cesar or one of his disciples.

I have, and at least one other board member has, too. Mine was so long ago that I can't be sure that they are still run the same way.....however, your post makes me think they are.

After years with dogs, going to a CM seminar woke me up to many things I was not granting enough attention, and I do tend to rave about him and his work. I'm sure it gets old to the seasoned special-purpose trainers on this board, but I'm a regular old obedience person, and a far better one from CM's lessons.