Diana Matusik wrote 08/11/2006 11:01 PM Re: Stopping tail dragging [Re: Scott Taylor ] #111202 - 08/11/2006 11:01 PM
Diana Matusik Webboard User Reg: 04-27-2004 Posts: 456 Loc: Central FL Offline	Scott, that style of training, overfeeding and forced OB, will create what you listed as "Rage" in probably all breeds. That is not "Rage Syndrome." That is "Inexperienced, Ignorant Owner/Trainer Syndrome." All dogs should be fed properly (not to the point of roly poly pudgies) and should be taught motivationally, with corrections and distractions introduced only after the dog fully understands the exercises. In other words, a dog should be treated fairly. To do anything else will make many dogs "grumpy" and break the spirits of many more. This is why many people are going over to a more positive training approach rather than the Koehler method.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 08/11/2006 11:02 PM Re: Stopping tail dragging [Re: Scott Taylor ] #111203 - 08/11/2006 11:02 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Anne as per my original post ESS are prone to an aggression problem called Rage Syndrome. All correction of an ESS should be carefully considered by their owners before enacting them. I believe that most ESS suffer from this condition to some degree or other. .............This was from my original post! Maybe you could start a post on Rage Syndrone in ESS, seems to be lots of interest! Regards, Scott But you are again saying that "most ESS" suffer from Rage Syndrome (to some degree or other). Pointing out all the research I have found calling this a rare (or "very rare") disorder really isn't "hijacking" when you say --- again ---- that "most ESS" have it.
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Scott Taylor wrote 08/11/2006 11:10 PM Re: Stopping tail dragging [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #111204 - 08/11/2006 11:10 PM
Scott Taylor Webboard User Reg: 07-26-2006 Posts: 52 Loc: Offline	Dear Connie Push an ESS into defence and be prepaired to take one giant step backwards! Some of the protection guys would be mighty impressed! Oh yah, and it is true, their eye's do glaze over! Sincerely Scott
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Connie Sutherland wrote 08/11/2006 11:28 PM Re: Stopping tail dragging [Re: Scott Taylor ] #111205 - 08/11/2006 11:28 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Dear Connie Push an ESS into defence and be prepaired to take one giant step backwards! Some of the protection guys would be mighty impressed! Oh yah, and it is true, their eye's do glaze over!....Sincerely,Scott Pushing into defense?! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> What did I miss here? Edited to add that this thread about a high-drive puppy treating a smaller dog like a chew toy has morphed into "most ESS suffer to some degree from Rage Syndrome" and "pushed into defense, their eyes do glaze over." Once again to the O.P. -- nothing that I have ever read anywhere and nothing I have ever experienced (with many dogs over many years) says that Rage Syndrome is a significant worry to you, ESS or not. I hope you'll follow your good instincts about increasing his exercise and everyone else's about separating the dogs.
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Diana Matusik wrote 08/11/2006 11:41 PM Re: Stopping tail dragging [Re: Scott Taylor ] #111206 - 08/11/2006 11:41 PM
Diana Matusik Webboard User Reg: 04-27-2004 Posts: 456 Loc: Central FL Offline	Why.. please.... WHY would you push an ESS into defense?! They are upland game bird dogs, NOT police dogs! The protection guys won't be impressed, you're just pushing the poor dog into survival mode! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Please tell me you never actually pushed such a wonderfully tempered dog as the springer into attacking a human. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> If so, no wonder you think they all have Rage....
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Anna Carson wrote 08/12/2006 12:09 AM Re: Stopping tail dragging [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #111207 - 08/12/2006 12:09 AM
Anna Carson Webboard User Reg: 03-30-2002 Posts: 133 Loc: Offline	Well, the behaviorists I've heard talk on the subject all agree that most cases of "Rage Syndrome" are mislabeled. Most of the dogs are plain and simple Dominant Aggressive. Karen Overall wrote: "The fraction of animals afflicted by a specific behavioral problem is real, but the labels we place on those animals may not be consistent across populations, so that demographic data may not, in fact, reflect the underlying frequency or occurrence of the problem." Basically she's saying that behavioral problems can be easily mislabeled.
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Anna Carson wrote 08/12/2006 12:25 AM Re: Stopping tail dragging [Re: Anna Carson ] #111208 - 08/12/2006 12:25 AM
Anna Carson Webboard User Reg: 03-30-2002 Posts: 133 Loc: Offline	Having had both docked and undocked dogs at the same time, it's common for the docked dogs to grab hold of tails. I just said they were jealous . Unless it goes overboard, I figure it's part of their playing like dogs. If it does get to be too much, I stop it, usually by throwing something in the general direction (dog bowls work great to put a stop to rowdy play).
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Scott Taylor wrote 08/12/2006 12:35 AM Re: Stopping tail dragging [Re: Anna Carson ] #111209 - 08/12/2006 12:35 AM
Scott Taylor Webboard User Reg: 07-26-2006 Posts: 52 Loc: Offline	What makes Rage Syndrome unique in ESS is the recovery time, which can vary from seconds, to minutes, to hours and in extreme cases days!
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Diana Matusik wrote 08/12/2006 12:47 AM Re: Stopping tail dragging [Re: Scott Taylor ] #111210 - 08/12/2006 12:47 AM
Diana Matusik Webboard User Reg: 04-27-2004 Posts: 456 Loc: Central FL Offline	Okay... now I call shenanigans. I'm pulling out of this thread now if it keeps going like this.
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Scott Taylor wrote 08/12/2006 12:50 AM Re: Stopping tail dragging [Re: Diana Matusik ] #111211 - 08/12/2006 12:50 AM
Scott Taylor Webboard User Reg: 07-26-2006 Posts: 52 Loc: Offline	Diana Since there is so much information available on Rage Syndrome, so much so that this breed specific behavior has been given it’s own name, I guess that there must have been more than a couple of ESS that have displayed this behavior. By the way, this rage is usually directed towards their owners. Regards Scott
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