Quote:

We MIGHT be able to get rid of Tia and Rebbie, but PB and Squeeks would still be together and that's where 98% of the fights come from

You might be surprised to see a difference in these two troublemakers if it were only the two of them as opposed to 4 dogs. Two dogs is not a pack. 4 dogs DO make a pack and the mentality changes dramatically. Major dominance issues, etc. They need a pack leader (and no offense, but it's obviously not you or your husband)so they're going to fight to solve this problem. There are multiple articles about this in Ed's website.

Get rid of at least two dogs. There is no way around this for you. You should get rid of 3, IMO, but at least get rid of 2. And the dogs that aren't well housetrained CAN be trained, but guess what? You need CRATES to do this!!

You're obviously here to try and do the right thing. Good for you. The right thing isn't always the easy thing. You and your dogs will be happier if you get rid of these dogs. Every single one of you deserves a happier life than you're living now.

*Post edited because I responded to the whole "breeding mixed dogs" thing before finishing reading the whole thread. *

I understand why you got upset, but thanks for re-reading and getting the clarification on that point.

As far as getting the ex-wife to read this..... EX-wife. Don't know her, never seen her, want nothing to do with her -- LONG STORY, only mildly dog related. I'll leave it at that.

We didn't feed them separately last night b/c my husband came home early before I had a chance to talk with him and started feeding them without me. We'll do it tonight.

I'll see if I can scrape enough to get one of Ed's collars. Walking one dog at a time, one collar will be enough.

THANK YOU for the VAW website!! It's PERFECT!

And yes....I feel most horrible for Tia. Though I was never the pack leader she needed me to be, she DID see me as the leader as evidenced by her actions....and now. *sigh* I definitely didn't do right by her, and she's the only one I am FULLY responsible for from beginning to end.

I swear my husband and I both are going to everything we can to fix this situation.

I GENUINELY appreciate every stitch of advice I've gotten from you guys -- blunt, harsh, or kind and soft. And eventually, the dogs will thank you to.

Netanya

I sense you really do want to help the dogs, but there are a few things that are going to prevent this.
As everyone has said, you are in over your head with these dogs. They are not housebroken. You can't leash walk them, or even keep collars on them. There doesn't seem to be any control over these dogs at all. A dog pen built out of chicken wire will not hold any dog; keep the chicken wire to bury for the diggers, or to cover the top, and build an actual dog kennel. Or, simply cross fence your yard. Trying a shock collar without even knowing simple companion training like housebreaking and leash training, is scary. Since the dogs aren't housebroken, they will have to be crated or kenneled. I think people are giving you credit for at least asking to help, but if rehoming some dogs isn't something you'd consider, without drastic changes in how you and your husband interact with them, there isn't anything anybody can do. It is not noble to allow them to simply be alive, but to live in terror. There are things worse than euthanasia. But you might be surprised- rehomed with someone who is an authority figure, exercizes them, and trains them, they may make very good pets.
vickie

not to pile on, but i think the OP is in for a very steep learning curve, and four dogs with behavioral issues is just much too much for a beginner, especially one with limited time and resources.

please research whether there are any no-kill shelters or rescue groups in your region and hand over at least two of your dogs. pick a place where they put the dogs in foster care where they will learn good manners and basic obedience.

then get started teaching yourselves how to manage dogs, lead dogs, and train dogs.

but if it were me, i'd start learning how to do this with ONE dog. after you've aced housebreaking, "acting out", and walking nicely on a leash, then you can think about if you want a second dog.

ONE dog, done right, is a lot of work. and you have enough to learn without heaping pack management on top of it.

i sincerely wish you good luck.

Please consider rehoming two or three of your dogs. PB will do WONDERFUL in a home where the owner is experienced and understanding of leadership. The only thing wrong with your dogs judging from your post is that none are trained, under control, nor receiving any leadership.

Speaking of leadership, read everything in here: Also, scrimp together enough money for Jan Fennell's book, "The Dog Listener." It's another wonderful guide on gaining leadership through lifestyle and it's excellent when coupled with the methods on Leerburg.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=640483&an=0&page=0#640483
(Links to Leerburg's groundwork article as well as a myriad of other leadership/NILIF resources)

By the way, if you call around, there are lots of low-cost spay clinics. You can start one at a time with them. I just saw you got a link to a low cost clinic, by all means go for that.

Give them LOTS of exercise, especially mental exercise. Physical exercise tires, but they also build stamina and will need more and more. Mental exercise *always* tires out a dog. A tired dog is a good dog. These dogs need a lot more exercise.

Finally, if one dog is way too much, do keep in mind that rehoming her might be very difficult. If you cannot handle her, euthanasia may be your only recourse. Have your husband send the Ex Wifey a bill for everything.

 Quote: Diana Matusik

Finally, if one dog is way too much, do keep in mind that rehoming her might be very difficult. If you cannot handle her, euthanasia may be your only recourse. Have your husband send the Ex Wifey a bill for everything.

LOL Oh, that would be awesome. haha Impossible, but awesome. I'll have to make sure to mention that to him.

Seriously though, to everyone....we are definitely in for a steep learning curve, as you so eloquently put it, Alice. But we are both prepared to work hard at it and do our very best. If our best isn't enough to improve the situation, then we'll see if anyone would be crazy enough to take any of the dogs.

I just sent out some emails to some pounds/kennels/spca's within a couple of hours of us to see if anyone has some extra crates they'd be willing to part with. We'll see what comes of that.

And tonight when we start feeding them separately, I'm going to measure necks and get at LEAST a dominant dog collar. If I'm VERY lucky, Tia, PB, and Squeeks should have very close measurements (crosses fingers). They're different weights, but their heads and necks are real close in size.

Gosh, I hope this works.

I am NEVER AGAIN having more than ONE dog, and that one shall be trained from puppyhood!

Netanya

I've four German Shepherds and three kids, all of them are crate trained(not the kids ) all of them have at least basic obedience and I'm the pack leader, thier place in the family is well established. I started one dog at a time. I highly recommend you spay/nueter and re home some of those dogs. Any other choice is dangerous and costly

 Quote: anitagard

I most definitely do NOT agree that two dogs is not a pack. For a while (about 2 years) I had two female GSDs. It was a real hassle refereeing the constant dominance struggles, sniping and back-biting.

Yikes! Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Personally, I believe that it takes 3 or more animals to make a group, which is what a pack is. 2 is a couple... and doesn't really make "group mentality." I think that what happened in your situation had less to do with pack drive than it did with having two females. Females are known for having issues with each other, as you already know.

That being said, if you include the humans, you do have a pack and some dogs have a stronger pack drive than others. Certainly another dog can impact the existing dog. However, I don't think that I would view problems between two dogs as pack-related. I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule, however. Didn't Ed write an article about this? Something about "3 or more dogs makes a pack?"

 Quote: amber morgan

... Didn't Ed write an article about this? Something about "3 or more dogs makes a pack?" ...

Yes.

QUOTE: THREE DOGS ARE A DOG PACK !!! The vast majority of pet owners don’t realize that 3 dogs are a dog pack. END from
http://www.leerburg.com/introducingdogs.htm